God Has A Design For His Church

[LifeIn]

(To Arch Stanton I am commenting on your own demonstrated lack of mastery of the language and how it works.

(To Arch Stanton) People do study the scriptural Greek, you have yet to show you having any expertise in translating the Greek.

There is a problem whenever an argument is made that depends on the poster's claimed technical expertise in some subject, especially in a forum where everyone is anonymous. There is not way for anyone to prove there expertise. Therefore everyone here must be assumed to be equally an expert (or not) as anyone else. Appealing to authority is not always a fallacy, but in this case it is, especially when that authority is yourself, an anonymous poster. If you can't make your point based on knowledge that everyone knows or can easily verify (not just the experts) then you have no argument.

 

[balshan]

There is a problem whenever an argument is made that depends on the poster's claimed technical expertise in some subject, especially in a forum where everyone is anonymous. There is not way for anyone to prove there expertise. Therefore everyone here must be assumed to be equally an expert (or not) as anyone else. Appealing to authority is not always a fallacy, but in this case it is, especially when that authority is yourself, an anonymous poster. If you can't make your point based on knowledge that everyone knows or can easily verify (not just the experts) then you have no argument.

Yep that is all RCs do appeal to authority and it is a fallacy. Then Rcs shouldn't put others down, making out they have no expertise in the Greek language. You pull up your own pretend authorities, rather than attack others.

RCs show they have no expertise by their lack of understanding on the subject. So from now on anonymous RCs will stop pretending they are experts. Good thing. Now how do RCs see the meaning of hypocrisy.

 

[LifeIn]

Yep that is all RCs do appeal to authority and it is a fallacy. Then Rcs shouldn't put others down, making out they have no expertise in the Greek language. You pull up your own pretend authorities, rather than attack others.

RCs show they have no expertise by their lack of understanding on the subject. So from now on anonymous RCs will stop pretending they are experts. Good thing. Now how do RCs see the meaning of hypocrisy.

I don't think any Catholics here have tried to use their personal expertise in an argument. If we appeal to authority it is to a known authority, not an anonymous authority. Examples of a known authority are (1) the Scriptures themselves, (2) documents from the Catholic Church, (3) Dictionaries, (4) authors with a wide-spread reputation, (5) well-known writers in Protestant churches (like Luther), etc. If I had to prove a particular interpretation of Greek was the right one I think I would look for one of these authorities rather than claim "I have studied this" as the sole reason for my view.

 

[balshan]

I don't think any Catholics here have tried to use their personal expertise in an argument. If we appeal to authority it is to a known authority, not an anonymous authority. Examples of a known authority are (1) the Scriptures themselves, (2) documents from the Catholic Church, (3) Dictionaries, (4) authors with a wide-spread reputation, (5) well-known writers in Protestant churches (like Luther), etc. If I had to prove a particular interpretation of Greek was the right one I think I would look for one of these authorities rather than claim "I have studied this" as the sole reason for my view.

Your RCC is a false authority, so it doesn't count. No they just put down others and their experts. No one has made a big deal about studying Greek, and they support their claims by known experts. Non RCs use scriptures, Rcs rarely use scripture. The catechism is full of false teachings. The ecfs are only used by RCs when it suits them. RC dictionaries just make up meanings of words to suit their false doctrines. I have not heard of these so called authors who have a wide spread reputation, that RCs claim to use. So that is meaningless. Yep, RCs like to blacken Luther whenever they can.

You only give us your opinion and that is meaningless. We have seen how RCs twist what experts say and what ECFs say.

Yep, just tell RCs what they should do because they are breaking your rules. Don't tell non RCs how to debate the false claims of RCs. Arrogance is just pride and very unappealing IMO.

What was the meaning of hypocrisy?

 

[Nondenom40]

There is a problem whenever an argument is made that depends on the poster's claimed technical expertise in some subject, especially in a forum where everyone is anonymous. There is not way for anyone to prove there expertise. Therefore everyone here must be assumed to be equally an expert (or not) as anyone else. Appealing to authority is not always a fallacy, but in this case it is, especially when that authority is yourself, an anonymous poster. If you can't make your point based on knowledge that everyone knows or can easily verify (not just the experts) then you have no argument.

Why aren't you condemning this response:

God Has A Design For His Church

The flesh is not 'My flesh'. We receive through the Eucharist. Christ mentions this at the Last Supper. He establishes communion for His children to partake of IN REMEMBRANCE, and His disciples remember His prior teachings. They understood this was figurative, a memorial of what was to come...

forums.carm.org

What a cop out. Your guy can cite all the greek nonsense he wants and its okay in your eyes. But we got a guy that knows it a bit more, or a lot more in depth and all of a sudden its, whoa hold on a second. We gotta ALL know what youre talking about or its not fair!! I'll take your white flag, thanks. What a joke. Just pick up your ball and go home already.

 

[balshan]

Why aren't you condemning this response:

God Has A Design For His Church

The flesh is not 'My flesh'. We receive through the Eucharist. Christ mentions this at the Last Supper. He establishes communion for His children to partake of IN REMEMBRANCE, and His disciples remember His prior teachings. They understood this was figurative, a memorial of what was to come...

forums.carm.org

What a cop out. Your guy can cite all the greek nonsense he wants and its okay in your eyes. But we got a guy that knows it a bit more, or a lot more in depth and all of a sudden its, whoa hold on a second. We gotta ALL know what youre talking about or its not fair!! I'll take your white flag, thanks. What a joke. Just pick up your ball and go home already.

Yep, they don't seem to know the meaning of hypocrisy either.

 

[WilliamC]

I don't think any Catholics here have tried to use their personal expertise in an argument.

They gave up any self proclaimed expertise the minute they became a part of the RCC.

If we appeal to authority it is to a known authority, not an anonymous authority.

One becomes an expert in what they know, not who they think they are.

Examples of a known authority are (1) the Scriptures themselves, (2) documents from the Catholic Church, (3) Dictionaries, (4) authors with a wide-spread reputation, (5) well-known writers in Protestant churches (like Luther), etc. If I had to prove a particular interpretation of Greek was the right one I think I would look for one of these authorities rather than claim "I have studied this" as the sole reason for my view.

How is documents from the CC a known authority? They contradict the unchanging Scriptures ALL the time. It is proven that various documents from the RCC are forgeries, and ante-dated documents to fool the masses that she had authority.

How are dictionaries a known authority when it comes to the Scriptures? Words change from one language to the next. For example, "For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness"... in English it can be translated to the termination or doing away with. In Greek END is "telos" which means the goal, or objective.
Many have argued that Christ was the termination of the law (English) for righteousness, as if one could have kept the law and been righteous under the Old Covenant.. They could not. But if Christ was the goal (Greek)of the law, it showed that the law simply pointed out sin,with it's death sentence, and the need for a Savior.

Who do you consider authors with a wide-spread reputation? The ECF's? Please.

 

[RayneBeau]

Christ was referring to His own body when He said 'This is my body'.

According to Roman Catholic teaching, in every RCC Mass, the death of Jesus becomes a present reality offered as the Roman Catholics sacrifice to God, but in an unbloody and sacramental manner. If the Roman Catholic performance of the ritual of the "Sacrifice of the Cross," is NOT performed on an altar, which represents a cross, then is the work of redemption still carried on?

 

[Buzzard]

.

Proverbs 1:1​

The proverbs of Solomon the son of David,​

king of Israel;​

​

2 To know wisdom and instruction;​

to perceive the words of understanding;​

.
--------Wisdom-------
Wisdom hath builded her house,
she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts;
she hath mingled her wine;
she hath also furnished her table.

She hath sent forth her maidens:
she crieth upon the highest places of the city,
Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither:
as for him that wanteth understanding,
she saith to him,

Come, eat of my bread,
and drink of the wine
which I have mingled.

Forsake the foolish, and live;
and go in the way of understanding.
.

The proverbs of Solomon the son of David,​

king of Israel;​

​

To know wisdom and instruction;​

to perceive the words of understanding;​

To receive the instruction of wisdom,​

justice, and judgment, and equity;​

To give subtilty to the simple,​

to the young man knowledge and discretion.​

​

5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning;​

and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:​

​

6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation;​

(To understand) the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.​

​

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge:​

but fools despise wisdom and instruction​

==========================================
.
.
John 6:59
These things said he in the synagogue,
as he taught in Capernaum.
.
And thou, Capernaum,
which art exalted unto heaven,
shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works,
which have been done in thee,
had been done in Sodom,
it would have remained until this day.
==============================================
.

Eating one's flesh? Wouldn't you do a double-take?

Arch Stanton said:

Eating one's flesh? Wouldn't you do a double-take?
================================end Arch's ?????
.

As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father:​

so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.​

This is that bread which came down from heaven:​

not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead:​

he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.​

​

These things said he in the synagogue,​

as he taught in Capernaum.​

.
And thou, Capernaum,
which art exalted unto heaven,
shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works,
which have been done in thee,
had been done in Sodom,
it would have remained until this day.
.

as he taught in Capernaum​

Many therefore of his disciples,​

when they had heard this,​

said,​

This is an hard saying; who can hear it?​

Arch Stanton said:
Eating one's flesh? Wouldn't you do a double-take?
====================================
.
Nope, Arch;
I don't need to do "a double take"
if I didn't already know,
then I would go where I was told to go

​

(To understand) the words of the wise,​

and their dark sayings.​

.

 

[Buzzard]

//
Malachi 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven;
and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly,
shall be stubble:
and the day that cometh shall burn them up,
saith the Lord of hosts,
that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
..
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant,
which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel,
with the statutes and judgments.
.

Why did He not clarify?

Why did Christ double down with His speech? [changing the intensity from phago/eating to trogo/chew on, gnaw on]

Arch Stanton said:
Why did He not clarify?

Why did Christ double down with His speech? [changing the intensity from phago/eating to trogo/chew on, gnaw on]
===================================end Arch reply
.
AHHHHH, Arch;
he didn't need to "clarify"
a figure of speach from Moses
somewhat like we say
"Here, chew on that for a while"
.
trogo/chew on, gnaw on
Trogo Definition
to gnaw, crunch, chew raw vegetables or fruits (as nuts, almonds) of animals feeding.
.
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant,
which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel,
with the statutes and judgments.

and what did Moses say ??????
about Chewing and equally / rightly dividing the hoof
chew one's / the cud, Informal. to meditate or ponder; ruminate.

hew the cud - Google Search

see Leviticus ch.11 / Deut. ch. 14
about chewing the cud; equally dividing the hoof
.
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
he leadeth me beside the still waters.
.
thou makest thy flock to rest at noon:

an animal that ruminates is an animal that
Eats of those Green Pastures to the fill
then gets a long drink of those Still Waters;
then finds that shade from the noon day sun
lies down, then "Chews that Cud" of food, for several hours,
as the case may be
getting all the good it can out of one bite

you can google more info if you wish

as Pauls says
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
.
and the Bride says;
Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth,
where thou feedest,
where thou makest thy flock to rest at noon:
where are those Green Pastures, still waters
and shade from the noon day sun
for why should I be as one that
turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?

8 If thou know not, O thou fairest among women,
go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock,
and feed thy kids beside the shepherds' tents.

​

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.​

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:​

he leadeth me beside the still waters.​

.​

Ps.119:97​

O how love I thy law!​

it is my meditation all the day.​

​

Thou through thy commandments​

hast made me wiser than mine enemies:​

for they are ever with me.​

​

I have more understanding than all my teachers:​

for thy testimonies are my meditation.​

​

I understand more than the ancients,​

because I keep thy precepts.​

.
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant,
which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel,
with the statutes and judgments.
-
so what are the Judgements for those that fail to do so ????
.
If thou know not, O thou fairest among women,
go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock,
and feed thy kids beside the shepherds' tents.

ie:
just go and feed on the Briers, Brambles, Thorns, Thistles
and the Mustards of the fields of Sodom and Gomorrah
.
most people, because they are not Farmers, livestock men nor Sheepherders
they do not know what a Mustard is, they think it is a good thing
but it is a ---- Noxious / Poisonous ----- plant that grows in arid climates

do not take the word of any "Old Babbler" ; Goggle it

Tansy mustard (Descurainia pinnata) is an annual weed that grows on dry, sandy soils in arid areas.
Intoxication occurs primarily in cattle only after large amounts of this plant have been eaten over extended periods of time.
Signs of poisoning include partial or complete blindness, inability to use the tongue, and aimless wandering.
.

 

[LifeIn]

Can't recall if it was Arch or another poster, but they strongly stated that the disciples of Luke 24:16 were prevented from recognizing Christ because of something in themselves, as if it was their own inability. And that there was no way to specify that it was God who prevented them from recognizing Christ.

It was me, but this is a misunderstanding of my point. In a sense, it is God who causes everything that happens because He is the creator of the world and everything about how the world works is His handiwork. However my point was not to diminish God's role in the disciples not recognizing Jesus on the road to Emmaus. It was to draw a comparison with God's role in our being prevented from seeing Jesus in the Eucharist. We are prevented in both cases and even though in different ways, it shows that the mere fact of not seeing with our eyes Jesus in the form of bread is no more unbelievable than the fact that those disciples on the road did not see Jesus in that random traveler. Likewise there is a reference to not seeing Jesus in the poor, the naked, the imprisoned, the sick, in the "sheep and goats" passage. The criticism that the bread does not look anything at all like the man Jesus we have heard so much about is not really a valid criticism. That was the real point - not some esoteric philosophical point about the nature of things or people's innate ability.

 

[LifeIn]

According to Roman Catholic teaching, in every RCC Mass, the death of Jesus becomes a present reality offered as the Roman Catholics sacrifice to God, but in an unbloody and sacramental manner. If the Roman Catholic performance of the ritual of the "Sacrifice of the Cross," is NOT performed on an altar, which represents a cross, then is the work of redemption still carried on?

For some people, why not? "The work of redemption" is an ongoing act of Christ. The sacrifice of the mass brings the reality of that work of redemption to people. But if you are fishing around for some way to make it look like the Catholic Church is putting a limitation on God regarding how and when He can perform His saving work in people's lives, I'm not biting. The Church does not assume any limitations on God's ultimate freedom of action.

 

[Watchdog]

Who do you consider authors with a wide-spread reputation? The ECF's? Please.

Who do you consider authors with a wide-spread reputation? The protestors? Please!

 

[WilliamC]

Who do you consider authors with a wide-spread reputation? The protestors? Please!

And that dog, is why I stick with the Scriptures. That's wide-spread reputation enough.

 

[Watchdog]

And that dog, is why I stick with the Scriptures. That's wide-spread reputation enough.

Someone is leading you to think a certain way, that cannot be denied.

 

[WilliamC]

Someone is leading you to think a certain way, that cannot be denied.

The Scriptures call it the Holy Spirit.

 

[Watchdog]

The Scriptures call it the Holy Spirit.

I call it "false preachers".

 

[balshan]

Someone is leading you to think a certain way, that cannot be denied.

Yep that is why you are an RC, you are being lead by the nose down the false road. It is very wide.

 

[balshan]

I call it "false preachers".

Yes the RC leaders are false preachers, we know this by their false doctrines, the fact they do not expose sin, they do not do what is right and they harm the sheep for a start.

 

[JohnDeVitoOfOld]

There is a problem whenever an argument is made that depends on the poster's claimed technical expertise in some subject, especially in a forum where everyone is anonymous. There is not way for anyone to prove there expertise. Therefore everyone here must be assumed to be equally an expert (or not) as anyone else. Appealing to authority is not always a fallacy, but in this case it is, especially when that authority is yourself, an anonymous poster. If you can't make your point based on knowledge that everyone knows or can easily verify (not just the experts) then you have no argument.

I am certainly not claiming to be the expert, but I am calling out errors that a first year student would fail a class test for. You are free to refute any point I have made. I can learn something. Like if you'd like to challenge the first year grammar comment I made on the relationship between touto, soma, and arton (or the lack thereof), or, more applicable since this was your argument, the use of the divine passive, feel free.

But your post as it stands is just a really weak complaint.