Simpletruther
Well-known member
Still waiting for a rational reply
If everyone gets the same amount of saving grace
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American Gothic
Well-known member
everyone breathing and not dead and in hell already is experiencing God's graciousness
God makes it rain on the believing and non-believing alike
what separates a Friend from a non-friend is a certain relationship
God makes it rain on the believing and non-believing alike
what separates a Friend from a non-friend is a certain relationship
Simpletruther
Well-known member
And what causes the relationship?
American Gothic
Well-known member
God chooses God's friends
and
gives to them as God wants
and
gives to them as God wants
preacher4truth
Well-known member
I wasn't aware* that grace was offered, or that it was offered to all. (*Because it isn't, but I'd like to see what texts you misuse to arrive at your philosophical teachings).
So I ask, where is this taught in Scripture; 1) That grace is an offer; 2) That it has been offered to every single person ever.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
If everyone got the same amount of grace, then all would be saved. Why? Because if all were given this grace, it means nothing less than that God saved all.
SovereignGrace
Well-known member
The best Christ could do was make ppl savable. He made it possible for them to be saved, the rest is up to them.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
God's GRACE (unmerited favor) is universal - I.E. when you SINNED for the first time, you weren't destroyed instantly, even though you were under sentence of DEATH. Same for all humans.
Instead, you were permitted to survive until you were Born again, and became a Christian. And you only did that because God DREW YOU to His Son in Conviction of SIN, which was the source of your FAITH (God's WORD TO YOU) and you repented, and cried out to HIM in FAITH for salvation.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
SovereignGrace
Well-known member
He’s too busy relishing new life in “Berea”.flom? ??
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Apparently one of them is back here in his Honda.
Theo1689
Well-known member
No, the poster has a far more bizarre "gospel" than simply "offering grace to all":
"Grace was no where in scripture “ given” to all, but it was “offered” to all who would believe, place their faith in Jesus, repent, and follow Him."
So for him, the Ordo Salutis is:
1) believe in Jesus;
2) place your faith in Jesus;
3) Repent of your sins;
4) Follow Jesus;
5) only THEN is grace "offered" to you:
And so I guess that makes three bizarre groups of people:
1) those who don't believe in Jesus;
2) those who believe in Jesus, and accept "grace";
3) those who believe in Jesus, but reject "grace".
Weird, weird...
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Only in the sense that there is a condition attached to saving grace, i.e. that it must be "through faith", does it denote an offer or rather the offer of a covenant for salvation. As faith can be rejected Heb 3:12,19, so can grace be done away with Gal 2:21.
There are alternative metaphors, such as a shining from heaven (ἐπιφαίνω) (Titus 2:11), or just light (John 1), depending on what aspect of grace one desires to explicate.
There are alternative metaphors, such as a shining from heaven (ἐπιφαίνω) (Titus 2:11), or just light (John 1), depending on what aspect of grace one desires to explicate.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Yes, and he added some other criteria along the way, adding to the gospel. It had something to do with trying harder to understand the gospel than others, something to do with personal effort along those lines, and I had quoted him on it in the past.
Once man starts taking credit, they start adding up all that credit, and the list grows.
Provisionism is a prime example.
Saying that faith is not devoid of an element of choice is not taking credit for faith. This is a serious fallacy. Eph 2:8-9 imputes "salvation" as the gift of God (i.e. not specifically faith). That is, faith is a facet of that gift from God. Moreover, salvation is not anything that is beyond the reach of the sinner after hearing the gospel. If God has commanded that all men should repent and have faith, then to have faith is nothing to boast about. Faith is often inflated into something esoteric and beyond man's ability, but in reality, it is a mundane thing, available to all and commanded for all, which command of itself negates taking any credit for faith. I don't believe anyone takes credit for faith, apart from hypocrites who pretend to something that they don't have.
As for laying into "personal effort," that is antithetic to biblical teaching. "Make every effort" is found numerous times in the New Testament, from Jesus to Peter to Paul and to the author of the letter of the Hebrews. No-one should contradict the injunction to make the effort to confirm their calling and election (2 Peter 1:10 etc).
As for laying into "personal effort," that is antithetic to biblical teaching. "Make every effort" is found numerous times in the New Testament, from Jesus to Peter to Paul and to the author of the letter of the Hebrews. No-one should contradict the injunction to make the effort to confirm their calling and election (2 Peter 1:10 etc).
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Reformedguy
Well-known member
He has not converted yet. LOL
Simpletruther
Well-known member
But if God drawing me is the only reason I gain than everyone would come.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
So if you're not God's friend it's because that's what God wants?
The history of our libertarian free will choices. God created us that way, so yes it is God from that perspective.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
But he did that for everybody. That still leaves you having something you were not given.