Kenosis Heresy

johnny guitar said:
Jesus is BOTH Man and God now and forevermore.
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So you deny the glorification of Jesus on his ascension? How could "the man Jesus" be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, "in flaming fire?"

This is a manifestation of the jurisdiction of Spirit.
 
101G said:
Addressing the OP,

thanks, for it is all about POWER, the G1411 dunamis, and the G1849 exousia., and NOT his DEITY, or "NATURE", SPIRIT, for his NATURE, is the "SHARED" spirit, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

FORM: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

and G3313 is where Our ANSWER of his equality lay, which is in the TERM as said,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).

and another word for "portion" is "SHARE", there is that equality. and the Greeks explain this equality in the term G243 ANOTHER, which is the ECHAD expressed numerically. "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". BINGO, a numerical difference is the "FIRST", and the "LAST", supportive scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." meaning the WITH is the SAME SORT, or PERSON as Phil 2:6 b states, " to be equal with God".
well that equality is the SAME ONE PERSON, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

the First is the LAST, not two person, but the same ONE person.

so the OP is Correct in that the Lord Jesus is GOD almighty in Flesh. which is answered by the UNDERSTANDING of "TOOK PERT", and but not being a "PARTAKER" of flesh and blood.

PICJAG, 101G.
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I was with you until the last part of the last sentence. (bolded above)

So are you saying Jesus was NOT a partaker of flesh and blood?
 
cjab said:
So you deny the glorification of Jesus on his ascension? How could "the man Jesus" be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, "in flaming fire?"

This is a manifestation of the jurisdiction of Spirit.
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The glorification of Jesus after His resurrection does NOT mean He ceased being a Man.
He is now a glorified MAN as well as God.
 
cjab said:
It IS anthropomorphism as the personhood of Spirit isn't the same as that for humans. For a start, human persons suffer the jurisdiction of earth, spiritual persons the jurisdiction of heaven. Consider the Lord's prayer in which the two jurisdictions are considered and distinguished. It is imperative to distinguish them.

Delineating deity in terms conceived by the jurisdiction of earth (person, substance, corporeality etc) is anthropomorphism. Indeed such is the Trinitarian devotion to corporeality, that Christ must even be conceived in corporeal terms in heaven in th same way as on earth, even where the apostles and Christ clearly distinguish the idea of a spiritual body from a fleshly body.

This is why the "divine person" in Christ the man is wrongly alleged by Trinitarians to be the "divine Word." As Christ himself said, the "divine person" was his Father. Trinitarians do not understand the operation of Spirit.
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Person as used in reference to Father, Son, Holy Spirit is of course NOT the same as that for humans, but is NOT anthropomorphism. Christ The MAN is certainly conceived in corporeal terms as all men are. A spiritual body is STILL a body, but a body fit for heaven. I have NO idea what you mean by "the divine Person in Christ The man. Christ is BOTH Divine AND Man. And all Christians understand the operation of The Holy Spirit.
 
johnny guitar said:
The glorification of Jesus after His resurrection does NOT mean He ceased being a Man.
He is now a glorified MAN as well as God.
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A glorified man is no longer flesh and blood, for 1 Corinthians 15:50. "Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable"
 
johnny guitar said:
I have NO idea what you mean by "the divine Person in Christ The man. Christ is BOTH Divine AND Man. And all Christians understand the operation of The Holy Spirit.
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Christ the man was divine by reason of eternal subsistence, origination from heaven, and by reason of incorporeal parts. However on eath the operating "divine person," or rather the operating divine Spirit (divine by form of deity) in Christ the man was "the Father" (via the Holy Spirit). It is what Christ himself said. Why do you deny it?

See the problem lies in failing to recognize that "divine person" infers "Spirit person" i.e. Spirit. "God is Spirit" said Christ, who didn't say "God is a divine person." So why do you?

If fact "divine person" is limited to "human person" in christological terms, but for Trinitarians this isn't acceptable.
 
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cjab said:
A glorified man is no longer flesh and blood, for 1 Corinthians 15:50. "Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable"
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That just means corruptible “ flesh and blood” whereas the Resurrection body is no longer corruptible but is immortal and incorruptible. You really do not understand what the Resurrection is cjab. Jesus post resurrection who was glorified said “ a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have”. So you don’t understand the difference between corruptible and incorruptible, mortal and immortal .

If you deny Jesus is now a man with real flesh then you believe the teaching of antichrist that He is no longer in the flesh as per 1&2 John.

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
That just means corruptible “ flesh and blood” whereas the Resurrection body is no longer corruptible but is immortal and incorruptible. You really do not understand what the Resurrection is cjab. Jesus post resurrection who was glorified said “ a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have”. So you don’t understand the difference between corruptible and incorruptible, mortal and immortal .

If you deny Jesus is now a man with real flesh then you believe the teaching of antichrist that He is no longer in the flesh as per 1&2 John.

hope this helps !!!
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All you do is endlessly confound the physical resurrection with the ascension into heaven.

The incorruptibility of Jesus body wasn't an inherent property of his flesh but at the command and will of God, i.e. by divine power prevailing over the natural corruptibility of the flesh. It wasn't because his human flesh was imbued with magical powers. Likewise Jesus' ascension into heaven wasn't because his flesh belonged in heaven, but again due to God's supervening power to transform his body into a glorious spiritual body.

So it is clear that you can't distinguish between the inherent properties of the flesh and God's commands and powers.

Also, 1 & 2 John have nothing to do with Jesus' post-ascension state but with his "coming" (i.e. not his "going").

Coming and going are different words. Travel is in opposite directions.

By twisting scripture in such a manner, you are behaving consistently with any cult.
 
cjab said:
All you do is endlessly confound the physical resurrection with the ascension into heaven.

The incorruptibility of Jesus body wasn't an inherent property of his flesh but at the command and will of God, i.e. by divine power prevailing over the natural corruptibility of the flesh. It wasn't because his human flesh was imbued with magical powers. Likewise Jesus' ascension into heaven wasn't because his flesh belonged in heaven, but again due to God's supervening power to transform his body into a glorious spiritual body.

So it is clear that you can't distinguish between the inherent properties of the flesh and God's commands and powers.

Also, 1 & 2 John have nothing to do with Jesus' post-ascension state but with his "coming" (i.e. not his "going").

Coming and going are different words. Travel is in opposite directions.

By twisting scripture in such a manner, you are behaving consistently with any cult.
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Spiritual BODY is a BODY.
Jesus Christ was a MAN at conception and has NEVER ceased being a MAN.
Case closed.
 
cjab said:
Christ the man was divine by reason of eternal subsistence, origination from heaven, and by reason of incorporeal parts. However on eath the operating "divine person," or rather the operating divine Spirit (divine by form of deity) in Christ the man was "the Father" (via the Holy Spirit). It is what Christ himself said. Why do you deny it?

See the problem lies in failing to recognize that "divine person" infers "Spirit person" i.e. Spirit. "God is Spirit" said Christ, who didn't say "God is a divine person." So why do you?

If fact "divine person" is limited to "human person" in christological terms, but for Trinitarians this isn't acceptable.
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Christ The man is HUMAN by reason of being a HUMAN.
Christ The Son of God is DIVINE by reason of being God.
 
johnny guitar said:
Christ The man is HUMAN by reason of being a HUMAN.
Christ The Son of God is DIVINE by reason of being God.
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Christ The Son of God was a human and at that time DIVINE by reason of his origination (came from heaven) not by reference to his subsistence as a human.
 
Slyzr said:
I was with you until the last part of the last sentence. (bolded above)

So are you saying Jesus was NOT a partaker of flesh and blood?
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CORRECT, HE ONLY took part IN FLESH AND BLOOD, MEANING HE HAS NO MOMMY OR DADDY. UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE between "Partake", and took Part".

once you know the difference then one will know the difference between the "Son of Man", who is Jesus the spirit, and the Son of God" Who is JESUS that which is "IN", "IN", "IN" flesh and Blood, and not from Flesh and Blood..

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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