Limited Atonement - Forgiveness of Sins

Theo1689

Well-known member
Matt. 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

"Many"?
Why not, "all", if God "died for all"?
Wouldn't "all" be far less ambiguous?

Luke 1:77 to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins,​

Why just "his people", and not, "everyone"?

Acts 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Hmmm.... That's very specific, isn't it?

Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Now, "everyone who believes" constitutes a specific group, ie. "believers", and excludes a defined other group, namely "unbelievers". While I understand that many (sincerely) believe that "everyone has the ability to believe", that simply isn't Biblical.

Rom. 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;

You mean not everyone is forgiven?!
Not everyone receives forgiveness of sins?!
May it never be!

Col. 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Only Christians have the forgiveness of sins?!

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So once again we see that not all have our sins forgiven.

1John 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name’s sake.
 
Matt. 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

"Many"?
Why not, "all", if God "died for all"?
Wouldn't "all" be far less ambiguous?

Luke 1:77 to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins,​

Why just "his people", and not, "everyone"?

Acts 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Hmmm.... That's very specific, isn't it?

Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Now, "everyone who believes" constitutes a specific group, ie. "believers", and excludes a defined other group, namely "unbelievers". While I understand that many (sincerely) believe that "everyone has the ability to believe", that simply isn't Biblical.

Rom. 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;

You mean not everyone is forgiven?!
Not everyone receives forgiveness of sins?!
May it never be!

Col. 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Only Christians have the forgiveness of sins?!

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So once again we see that not all have our sins forgiven.

1John 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name’s sake.

Those scriptures don't give the impression that some are unable to believe, as limit atonement would have it.
 
Those scriptures don't give the impression that some are unable to believe, as limit atonement would have it.

I never said they did.

If it is your assertion that EVERYONE is "able to believe", it is YOUR burden to prove it, not ours to disprove it.

This is called, "shifting the burden of proof".
 
I never said they did.

If it is your assertion that EVERYONE is "able to believe", it is YOUR burden to prove it, not ours to disprove it.

This is called, "shifting the burden of proof".

Limited atonement is what you titled it. So apparently you were owning the burdon of proof. But those scriptures don't say we are unable to believe.
 
Limited atonement is what you titled it. So apparently you were owning the burdon of proof. But those scriptures don't say we are unable to believe.

<sigh>

Yes, the thread is about limited atonement.

The thread is NOT (repeat, NOT) about "ability to believe".

Please stop trying to derail my thread.
It's rude.
 
Limited atonement is what you titled it. So apparently you were owning the burdon of proof. But those scriptures don't say we are unable to believe.
Hmmm...with the above category errors "unable to comprehend" is more fitting.

If one cannot comprehend and stay on track in human interactions, how could one possibly have the ability to believe the more weighty and hidden spiritual matters?

Sscripture? Faith comes externally, Romans 10:17; Philippians 1:29; 2 Peter 1:1, and Ephesians 1:19, thus it is not innate nor is it inherent within man.

As for the OP, it delivered some good Scriptures concerning the "L" in TULIP, and you've addressed exactly none of them, not to mention being off topic.
 
Limited atonement is what you titled it. So apparently you were owning the burdon of proof. But those scriptures don't say we are unable to believe.
It's not a matter of ability. It's a matter of moral ability. Your desires.

"no one seeks after God"

"no one can come to me"
 
Matt. 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

"Many"?
Why not, "all", if God "died for all"?
Wouldn't "all" be far less ambiguous?

You are aware the word many does not contradict the word all





It is clear Christ died for more than the Calvinist elect



Heb 2:9

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Is 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Jn 6:51

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

2 Co 5:14–15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Jn 11:51

And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

1 Jn 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Luke 1:77 to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins,​

Why just "his people", and not, "everyone"?

Are you going to claim people other than Jews are not instructed regarding salvation
Acts 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Hmmm.... That's very specific, isn't it?



Your point?



Are you claiming only Jews are granted repentance
Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Now, "everyone who believes" constitutes a specific group, ie. "believers", and excludes a defined other group, namely "unbelievers". While I understand that many (sincerely) believe that "everyone has the ability to believe", that simply isn't Biblical.

You have done nothing at all to prove that claim



Scripture seems to indicate otherwise



John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.



John 1:6–7 (NASB 2020) — 6 A man came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.



Romans 10:8–17 (NASB 2020) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be Put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? How are they to believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 But how are they to preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!” 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
 
Hmmm...with the above category errors "unable to comprehend" is more fitting.

If one cannot comprehend and stay on track in human interactions, how could one possibly have the ability to believe the more weighty and hidden spiritual matters?

Sscripture? Faith comes externally, Romans 10:17; Philippians 1:29; 2 Peter 1:1, and Ephesians 1:19, thus it is not innate nor is it inherent within man.

As for the OP, it delivered some good Scriptures concerning the "L" in TULIP, and you've addressed exactly none of them, not to mention being off topic.
Actually it is enabled externally by revelation



Faith itself is man’s response to revelation



The ability for faith however is innate in man



Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.



Belief, trust remains something man does as shown by the active voice



It is not something in which man is passive
 
It's not a matter of ability. It's a matter of moral ability. Your desires.

"no one seeks after God"

"no one can come to me"
It is a little more nuanced than that for we see many did seek the lord



2 Chronicles 11:16 (ESV) — 16 And those who had set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came after them from all the tribes of Israel to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the Lord, the God of their fathers.



2 Chronicles 19:3 (ESV) — 3 Nevertheless, some good is found in you, for you destroyed the Asheroth out of the land, and have set your heart to seek God.”



2 Chronicles 20:3 (ESV) — 3 Then Jehoshaphat was afraid and set his face to seek the Lord, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.



2 Chronicles 20:4 (ESV) — 4 And Judah assembled to seek help from the Lord; from all the cities of Judah they came to seek the Lord.



2 Chronicles 34:3 (ESV) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet a boy, he began to seek the God of David his father, and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem of the high places, the Asherim, and the carved and the metal images.



Isaiah 58:2 (ESV) — 2 Yet they seek me daily and delight to know my ways, as if they were a nation that did righteousness and did not forsake the judgment of their God; they ask of me righteous judgments; they delight to draw near to God.





Perhaps the meaning is no one initiates seeking the lord



Then the question is can man respond to a God who seeks him



However your approach is faulty for we have verses which show man can believe



Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.



John 12:40 (ESV) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”



John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.



John 1:7 (ESV) — 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.



John 17:20 (ESV) — 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,





So you should not try to contradict scripture with your interpretations



And of course you have confessed man can believe.
 
It is a little more nuanced than that for we see many did seek the lord



2 Chronicles 11:16 (ESV) — 16 And those who had set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came after them from all the tribes of Israel to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the Lord, the God of their fathers.



2 Chronicles 19:3 (ESV) — 3 Nevertheless, some good is found in you, for you destroyed the Asheroth out of the land, and have set your heart to seek God.”



2 Chronicles 20:3 (ESV) — 3 Then Jehoshaphat was afraid and set his face to seek the Lord, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.



2 Chronicles 20:4 (ESV) — 4 And Judah assembled to seek help from the Lord; from all the cities of Judah they came to seek the Lord.



2 Chronicles 34:3 (ESV) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet a boy, he began to seek the God of David his father, and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem of the high places, the Asherim, and the carved and the metal images.



Isaiah 58:2 (ESV) — 2 Yet they seek me daily and delight to know my ways, as if they were a nation that did righteousness and did not forsake the judgment of their God; they ask of me righteous judgments; they delight to draw near to God.





Perhaps the meaning is no one initiates seeking the lord



Then the question is can man respond to a God who seeks him



However your approach is faulty for we have verses which show man can believe



Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.



John 12:40 (ESV) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”



John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.



John 1:7 (ESV) — 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.



John 17:20 (ESV) — 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,





So you should not try to contradict scripture with your interpretations



And of course you have confessed man can believe.
Problem is "no one seeks after God".

We have the natural ability but not the moral ability. You know, the point you ignored.
 
Problem is "no one seeks after God".

We have the natural ability but not the moral ability. You know, the point you ignored.
You just ignored these

2 Chronicles 11:16 (ESV) — 16 And those who had set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came after them from all the tribes of Israel to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the Lord, the God of their fathers.



2 Chronicles 19:3 (ESV) — 3 Nevertheless, some good is found in you, for you destroyed the Asheroth out of the land, and have set your heart to seek God.”



2 Chronicles 20:3 (ESV) — 3 Then Jehoshaphat was afraid and set his face to seek the Lord, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.



2 Chronicles 20:4 (ESV) — 4 And Judah assembled to seek help from the Lord; from all the cities of Judah they came to seek the Lord.



2 Chronicles 34:3 (ESV) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet a boy, he began to seek the God of David his father, and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem of the high places, the Asherim, and the carved and the metal images.



Isaiah 58:2 (ESV) — 2 Yet they seek me daily and delight to know my ways, as if they were a nation that did righteousness and did not forsake the judgment of their God; they ask of me righteous judgments; they delight to draw near to God.

obviously you failed to read.
 
You just ignored these

2 Chronicles 11:16 (ESV) — 16 And those who had set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came after them from all the tribes of Israel to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the Lord, the God of their fathers.



2 Chronicles 19:3 (ESV) — 3 Nevertheless, some good is found in you, for you destroyed the Asheroth out of the land, and have set your heart to seek God.”



2 Chronicles 20:3 (ESV) — 3 Then Jehoshaphat was afraid and set his face to seek the Lord, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.



2 Chronicles 20:4 (ESV) — 4 And Judah assembled to seek help from the Lord; from all the cities of Judah they came to seek the Lord.



2 Chronicles 34:3 (ESV) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet a boy, he began to seek the God of David his father, and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem of the high places, the Asherim, and the carved and the metal images.



Isaiah 58:2 (ESV) — 2 Yet they seek me daily and delight to know my ways, as if they were a nation that did righteousness and did not forsake the judgment of their God; they ask of me righteous judgments; they delight to draw near to God.

obviously you failed to read.
You just ignored these.

"No one seeks God"

"No one can come to me"

Yours are written to the people of God. Israel. You know hermeneutic boy. Audience relevance? Remember that one?
 
You just ignored these.

"No one seeks God"

"No one can come to me"

Yours are written to the people of God. Israel. You know hermeneutic boy. Audience relevance? Remember that one?
So what if it was written to israel?


show how audience relevance changes the facts

did you imagine Rom 3 was addressing only gentiles

Romans 3:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

context shows otherwise
 
So what if it was written to israel?


show how audience relevance changes the facts

did you imagine Rom 3 was addressing only gentiles

Romans 3:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

context shows otherwise
So what? LOL

That about says it all.
 
You just ignored these.

"No one seeks God"

"No one can come to me"

Yours are written to the people of God. Israel. You know hermeneutic boy. Audience relevance? Remember that one?
What the provisionist does is change their hermeneutic and say the passage isn't for us. Leighton and his follower do that with John 6, "ain't for us," until it is convenient for them, then "it's for us."

I called them out on it many times, and the provisionists dance all around that too.
 
So what? LOL

That about says it all.
You fail to address what was in the context

Romans 3:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

and scripture shows men did seek God

 
You fail to address what was in the context

Romans 3:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

and scripture shows men did seek God

You failed to address "no one seeks after God".

It does not say no one seeks God but some do.

He says you failed to address context but does not tell us what the context is.

FAIL
 
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