Bonnie
Super Member
We will have the same glory Jesus has,, when we get to heaven. But that won't make us gods. There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD--and the limited god of Mormonism isn't one.
Mormon, whose child are you?
- Thread starter Janice Bower
- Start date
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Officially in my past research which I can no longer find, Mornons must earn an adoption to their christ wherein they become his children; otherwise they can't be in the "Church of the Firstborn' in the highest degree of the CK. That is why the Mormon interpretation of John 1:12 is different from our Christian interpretation. They do not teach that they are adopted children of the father who gave then birth through a heavenly mother. Does any non-Mormon understand what I'm trying to explain?
brotherofJared
Well-known member
We are all the sons and daughters of God who is the Father of spirits. Theo is wrong.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Isn't it fascinating?
Mormons falsely accuse us of not properly understanding the Bible, but look at the linguistic gymnastics they have to use to try to cram their false doctrines into Scripture:
John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
If this is referring to becoming "children of Christ", then why doesn't it say, "he gave the right to become his children"? "Children of God" here CLEARLY refers to the Father.
John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
We were NOT "born" of Christ.
"Adoption" is NOT "birth".
So this is clearly referring to God the Father. And this makes a mockery of language, if "God" in v.12 allegedly refers to Jesus, but "God" in v.13 refers to the Father. How are we supposed to know that the referent has changed?
Time to get the "Mormon Secret Decoder Ring".
"BESURETOEATYOUROVALTINE."
So, the Mormon god had a bunch of spirit-babies - us humans. The Mormon Jesus was one of them. That makes us his siblings. And if we earn it, M. Jesus will adopt us?!? ? Whyever would an elder son want to adopt his sibs while their father was still alive and in good health?
What a patchwork religion.
dberrie2020
Super Member
Humans, as mortals-- aren't spirits, RiJoRi.
But the spirits which inhabit the physical body are Fathered by God the Father:
Hebrews 12:9---King James Version
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
And we are His offspring:
Acts 17:29---King James Version
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
That was His claim:
John 20:17---King James Version
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Those who share the same Father are always siblings. Unless you can reveal to us what other God Fathers spirits--then they are all brethren:
Hebrews 2:9-11---King James Version
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
That's why it's an adoption--because there is another Father, other than the adopter--which is the original Father.(God the Father--think Hebrews12:9)
That's the only way it can be an adoption, because the original Father can't adopt. It must be to someone other than the original F(f)ather--as in Jesus Christ.
And by that adoption--Jesus becomes the Father, just as the pattern shown here, whereby we start as sons--and become fathers.
The result being:
Revelation 3:21--King James Version
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
brotherofJared
Well-known member
False. There is no such thing as a spirit baby. We do not teach that there is or ever was. Learn what you are preaching against so you don't look so silly. We are all the offspring of God according to the Bible. That does not mean that anyone gave birth to us and had us as little babies. We simply believe what the Bible teaches and have never given any details about how that occurs. The idea you just produced was manufactured by our critics. It's not ours.
Jesus of the Bible is one of us. Or so he told Mary. His God and his Father is our God and our Father. I don't know why you guys just don't believe the Bible for what it says. Why can't you just accept it as it is written? There's no reason to interpret that. If jesus's father is our Father then he is one of us, a son of God.
Because if he doesn't adopt us we can't enter into the kingdom of his father.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Mormons not only disagree with each other but also disagree with their prophets.
Here is the entire page of the !972 Family Home Evening Manual “Mommy + Daddy = You” graphic.
I have this manual. Mormon "heavenly father plus mary" were said to be parents of Mormon "jesus." Marriages are supposed to be for time and eternity. That is a requirement for godhood. Marriage requires a male and female who will have a "continuation of the seeds forever." There are no children, spirit or otherwise, who have not had parents. People who do not have temple marriages do not have a continuation of the seeds.
SEE Mormonism Research Ministry.
Here is the entire page of the !972 Family Home Evening Manual “Mommy + Daddy = You” graphic.
I have this manual. Mormon "heavenly father plus mary" were said to be parents of Mormon "jesus." Marriages are supposed to be for time and eternity. That is a requirement for godhood. Marriage requires a male and female who will have a "continuation of the seeds forever." There are no children, spirit or otherwise, who have not had parents. People who do not have temple marriages do not have a continuation of the seeds.
SEE Mormonism Research Ministry.
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brotherofJared
Well-known member
I guess the light is a little too bright for you.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
No. We actually just disagree with you. Members of our church you disagree in this venue either stop posting here or leave the church.
It doesn't matter what's in the 1972 Family Home Evening manual.
What matters here is what we tell you we believe.Look very closely at the illustration. Do you see Mommy and Daddy having sex? No. But Mommy is real and daddy is real and neither of them are ghosts.
So, let's go through this, "discuss in your own words how Jesus was the only begotten Son of God".
"You might do this by using the following illustration"
You look at it and see sex. I don't. What I see and what I believe is being illustrated is that it takes two human beings to produce a human offspring. The idea that they had sex to do it is irrelevant because we know that we do not need to have sex to produce offspring.
It is a biological fact that human women cannot produce human offspring (actually any offspring) with anything other than another human. Jesus was human, his mother was human and therefore his father is also human.
Now, does Jesus have a mother and a father? Yes, he does.
Now, as far as who Jesus' real father is, that seems to be a never-ending debate. We believe it is God the Father and that's what that manual teaches. It does not teach and I don't think any parent would teach that God had sex with Mary to get her pregnant. IMO, that is a scenario that is entirely fabricated by our critics.
That is what we believed in taught in 1972. It is what we teach today. it is what the church has always taught. The gutter speak that you claim it teaches doesn't come from anyone who is a member of our church that I know of.
Well that is just a strawman. The church teaches exalted folks can, and this is directly from a teaching manual, "Gospel Fundamentals"....Chapter 36.
To live in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is called exaltation* or eternal life. To be able to live in this part of the celestial kingdom, people must have been married in the temple and must have kept the sacred promises they made in the temple. They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted.
Where do they spirit children come from that we will receive that our HF received? And how are they given to HF and in turn a exalted person?
There are also LDS teachings about HF's spirit children being raises to maturity....what does that imply? Keep in mind it is a very clear teaching that exalted men will be like HF and have everything he and Jesus have....power, glory, knowledge, and dominion. So by default, exalted being will be have spirit children and be heavenly parents.
Is picture is from LDS .org, under the title of Spirit Children of Heavenly Parents.... Click Here
BOJ, these are not exactly adults, so isn't a fair assumption they were babies? Remember, if exalted you will be like HF, and do all that he has done, and have everything he has.
So what you tell folks is LDS doctrine. Do you speak for the church? Be careful the SCMC might be listening!
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Sex? Brigham Young and Joseph Smith had children. "In the heavens are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare!" (O My Father)
Spencer W. Kimball spoke to the church on disapproval of birth control, as recorded in “The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball.”
Spencer W. Kimball spoke to the church on disapproval of birth control, as recorded in “The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball.”
I was taught that it was "selfish" to not have a "full quiver"....basically 6 to 10 children. It was a huge talking point in the church and just a basic understanding. I understood that we were ALL spirit children of HF and HM, including being a baby and infant. I concede I did not go past that talking point as we are asking BoJ too do....but the implications are beyond clear. For me it was just the way it was.
If one really wants to get into it we can go to Orson Pratts teachings about women basically being eternally pregnant. And even if a member says Orson was just giving his opinion...well, it was the same opinion I understood and was taught in the church. And if a LDS prophet believed it that way, it was at best just a very unclear teaching, but seeing it is still a debate and talking point, BOJ has no basis to say other wise, as if he speaks for the church as he implied.
I genuinely laughed out loud!
Richard7
Well-known member
Oh my, trash talk seems to have crossed over to the Christians on this forum... chuckle.
Post 195 by our critic in house poster, Theo: "So does the Mormon church teach "trash talk" at the MTC, or does it teach it at ward meetings?
Janice Bower
Well-known member
If women don't have a lot of babies, how can we/they populate new planets? After we were married someone asked me when we were going to start our family! We had our first child one year and six months after the wedding. ?
Not fast enough? We weren't practicing birth control! S. W. Kimball didn't want us to use b. c. and a new male member asked my husband if Kimball wanted members to commit financial suicide.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
So? Regardless of how children are conceived, whether it be by sex or some other means, it still requires a human male and a human female.to.produce a human child. Was Jesus human? Was his mother human? If they were, then Jesus had a human father. It doesn't mean they had sex to do it. Ghosts, btw, are not human.