Theo1689
Well-known member
Gal. 4:16 Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?
Have a nice day, Josheb...
Salvation and Obedience: Can you have one without the other?
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Gal. 4:16 Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?
Have a nice day, Josheb...
Josheb
Well-known member
There is no truth in 68 or 79. The truth is as I have stated:
- The original comments and inquiry were off-topic from the op and irrelevant to the point I was making.
- The question asked was asked already knowing the answer.
- Any insinuation I don't think Jesus is God is factually incorrect.
- Even if asked rhetorically the question is not helpful.
- There is nothing condescending about my correction.
- It is, however, condescending to judge others condescending.
- It is also hypocritical.
- The ad hominem is fallacious.
- The personal comments also violate CARM Rules 12, 22, and 39.
- Blaming others for your own wrongdoing is gaslighting.
- You started it.
- If the above errors are corrected, then exchanges like this won't happen again.
- The opportunity to correct any of these has availed itself and is being ignored.
I hope those truths did not make me your enemy. It would be better to view that list through the first half of Proverbs 26:6.
I, Theo, go off topic to ask you a question to which I already know the answer, call you condescending, and then wish you a nice day.
That is messed up. It would be better to simply be silent.
Take responsibility for your own posts.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Just the initial stage though.... Confirmation, Eucharist, Reconciliation, etc.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Paul isn't describing a Christian struggle in Romans 7. He is describing the predicament of a Jewish human being under the Law. It is a fatal predicament which requires a solution, "who will deliver me from this body of death?"
Romans 7: The Problem - human flesh
Romans 8: The Solution to the Problem - death to the flesh, life in the Spirit
for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but IF by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:13-14
Josheb
Well-known member
No, he is not.
Paul uses the first person singular and repeatedly speaks in the present tense.
Romans 7:9-20
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful. For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
He was writing about himself. Romans was written some 20+ years after his conversion. He explicitly stated, "I AM... sold into bondage to sin," not "I was sold..." Present-tense, not past-tense. He said, "I AM not practicing what I would like to do, but I AM doing the very thing I hate." First person singular and present-tense, not past-tense. The word "now," in verse 17 means now. The word "now" does not mean "then," or "in the past."," and if you make that "now" mean something other than now then problems are going to be created with Verse 8:1.
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
The word "now" means now.
The evidence proves otherwise.
Josheb
Well-known member
Yes, and Romans 8:13-14 was written by a Christian to Christians about Christians and conditions in which Christians found themselves after Calvary and Pentecost. The "you," in those two verses is "all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 1:7). That is who he identified as his audience. That is to whom he was writing. If the beloved of God, those called as saints live according to the flesh they must die. Alternatively, if they live by the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the body they will live. Many call on Jesus, claiming to know him but don't (Matthew 7:23). It is those who live by the Spirit that are the sons of God, but that does not change the fact they have both flesh and Spirit at work in them.
Paul wrote bluntly about it out of his own experience as a Christian, having been a convert for more than 20 years, and it was the Spirit that inspired him to tell of his own experience.
2 Corinthians 12:7-10
Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore, I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
Did you know that a "thorn in the flesh" is an Old Testament phrase used for judgment? See Number 33:55; Judges 2:3. Paul was under some unidentified form of judgment from which he asked to be released. This judgment was provided by God via a messenger of satan, and it was provided to keep him from exalting himself. This implies Paul was at risk of doing so - of exalting himself. He asked more than once (see Mt. 26:44 and Lk. 18:5), and each time God denied his request and told Paul His grace was sufficient for the complaint. In that grace Paul found contentment with his weakness.
rossh
Well-known member
so let me ask, when and where did the messiah Yeshu do those things, apart from baptism.. ?
We are told to love one another as we love ourselves !! Forgive as God Forgives us,
rossh
Well-known member
well this is only the RCC and they are mostly pedophiles and or homosexuals sadly to say.. ?
I know that, but does God NOT know that we accept Him and Love his Messiah and that we are trying our best to obey ALL His commands unless the RCC give us their approval to do so or lets God know this ?
Did Adam run to a RC Priest before being kicked out of the Garden ?
rossh
Well-known member
Well that is fine, if one is a RC but, it was all over and done with long before the RCC came into an organization on simply single men, right ?
1 Cor 7:
8 Now to the single people and the widows I say that it is fine if they remain unmarried like me;
9 but if they can't exercise self-control, they should get married; because it is better to get married than to keep burning with sexual desire.
10 To those who are married I have a command, and it is not from me but from the Lord: a woman is not to separate herself from her husband
11 But if she does separate herself, she is to remain single or be reconciled with her husband. Also, a husband is not to leave his wife.
12 To the rest I say - I, not the Lord: if any brother has a wife who is not a believer, and she is satisfied to go on living with him, he should not leave her.
13 Also, if any woman has an unbelieving husband who is satisfied to go on living with her, she is not to leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband has been set aside for God by the wife, and the unbelieving wife has been set aside for God by the brother - otherwise your children would be "unclean," but as it is, they are set aside for God.
15 But if the unbelieving spouse separates himself, let him be separated. In circumstances like these, the brother or sister is not enslaved - God has called you to a life of peace.
1 The Spirit expressly states that in the acharit-hayamim some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2 Such teachings come from the hypocrisy of liars whose own consciences have been burned, as if with a red-hot branding iron.
3 They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods which God created to be eaten with thanksgiving by those who have come to trust and to know the truth.
4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing received with thanksgiving needs to be rejected,
5 because the word of God and prayer make it holy.
6 If you present all this to the brothers, you will be serving the Messiah Yeshua well; it will show that you have digested the words of the faith and of the good teaching which you have followed.
7 But refuse godless bubbe-meises, and exercise yourself in godliness.
8 For although physical exercise does have some value, godliness is valuable for everything, since it holds promise both for the present life and for the life to come.
9 Here is a statement you can trust, one that fully deserves to be accepted
10 (indeed, it is for this that we toil and strive): we have our hope set on a living God who is the deliverer of all humanity, especially of those who trust.
11 Command these things and teach them.
rossh
Well-known member
Yes, I do agree that no one can obey the Law ( all of the laws and by laws and regulations etc; ) as seen, even Adam broke the law when there was NO law per se, he simply could not resist temptation and disobeyed God's order. Too bad So sad.
Seriously,, then WHY AS AN INFANT OF ALL ISSUES ? Just answer this for us, we can hardly wait ??
rossh
Well-known member
what " do this in memory of Me! " is this the same to you guys He broke bread with friends at homes of friends and supped wine.
So ? confirming what exactly ?
it maybe a shock to you to find out how so many may not be at all " saved " as per the Word of God.
Romans 10:
5 For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them.
6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says: "Do not say in your heart, ' Who will ascend to heaven?'" that is, to bring the Messiah down
7 or, "'Who will descend into Sh'ol?'" that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead.
8 What, then, does it say ? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart." l und trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered.
10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance.
11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated.
12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile - ADONAI is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him,
13 since everyone who calls on the name of ADONAI will be delivered.
We have to speak publicly ie; to our fellow believers who has ever done this then ??? Not so many I assume, like " I confess Yeshua to be my Lord and my Savior/Messiah! "
rossh
Well-known member
Yes I did all of of that but now I am a true believer and confessed to many..
5 For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them. k
6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend to heaven?'" that is, to bring the Messiah down -
7 or, "'Who will descend into Sh'ol?'" that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead.
8 What, then, does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart."l that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely,
9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered.
10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance.
11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated.
12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile - ADONAI is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him,
13 since everyone who calls on the name of ADONAI will be delivered.
" I confess Yeshua to be MY Lord and MT Messiah/Savior ,, "
rossh
Well-known member
well said.. Amen to that!
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
John 20:21-23 [Jesus] said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”;
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Indeed, the Church established by Christ!
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
? ?
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
The Eucharist.... body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ
not shocked at all - Mt 7:13-14
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
You already had it all in His Church.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
You obviously need to read Romans 6 again.
Or are you ignorant that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
You don't know what you are talking about. Yes, I know that you think you do.
No one can serve two masters or he will love the one and hate the other.
Thanks for the incredible insight.
Josheb
Well-known member
Hmmm... If I say, "You obviously need to learn how to read and you obviously need how not to change the subject," do you find that a polite, respectful, cogent 1 Cor. 13:4-7 kind of argument? Your response did not address a single point I made. The first-person and present-tense language was completely ignored. Paul can easily move back and forth past, present and/or future in chapter 6, or 8 or 99,000 and still use the first-person and present tense in chapter 7. Your argument is a false dichotomy, NOT a sound exegesis of the Romans 3-8 narrative.
And if you can't keep the posts about the posts and not the posters don't expect further replies from me. Keep your posts topical, not personal.