The free gift of God

Janice Bower said:
Resurrection in Mormonism does not result in eternal life.
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That's good. The resurrection does not result in eternal life in the Bible either. Everyone will be resurrected.
Janice Bower said:
Nor is it the way to eternal life.
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The way to eternal life is following the teachings of Jesus Christ. And if we follow his teachings our sins can be forgiven and we can be sanctified and brought into the presence of his father which is eternal life.
Janice Bower said:
Faith in Christ is not suffficient for eternal life.
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Keeping commandments is having faith in Christ and it is sufficient for eternal life.
Janice Bower said:
Christians are said to be assigned to a lower (fictitious, btw) kingdom
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Pure bunk. If that were true then we would also be assigned to your idea of a lower kingdom because we are also Christian.

There are Christians who follow Jesus Christ's teaching and then there are Christians who only say they follow Jesus Christ teachings but in fact do not.

In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, if anyone is assigned to a Lord Kingdom, it will be based upon what they do not on what they believe.
Janice Bower said:
even though 1 Nephi 14:10 says their churches are "of the devil."
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Churches set up by men to deceive men to profit off of men and to lead them astray would be churches of the devil. Have you ever heard of a wolf in sheep's clothing?

In my opinion the best deception is teaching people that it doesn't matter what you do you will be saved. You don't have to follow the teachers of Jesus Christ, you don't have to be baptized, God will just know if you would have been baptized if you had known. Those kind of teachings will lull people into carnal security. With that kind of theology Jesus Christ is an 11th hour kind of guy. You can go right up to the 59th minute and still be saved doing whatever you want with your life and if you say I believe just before you die, you will be saved in the kingdom of God. Amen! Can I get an amen? Isn't that the most beautiful lie you ever heard? Why, even Mormons can do that.

That is in direct contradiction to the scriptures. Those whose deeds in life are good will be resurrected to life those whose deeds are evil in life will be resurrected the damnation. The key word here is deeds and the kind of deeds that you do.
 
brotherofJared said:
In my opinion the best deception is teaching people that it doesn't matter what you do you will be saved. You don't have to follow the teachers of Jesus Christ, you don't have to be baptized, God will just know if you would have been baptized if you had known. Those kind of teachings will lull people into carnal security. With that kind of theology Jesus Christ is an 11th hour kind of guy. You can go right up to the 59th minute and still be saved doing whatever you want with your life and if you say I believe just before you die, you will be saved in the kingdom of God. Amen! Can I get an amen? Isn't that the most beautiful lie you ever heard?
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At least you admit that it's a lie, because it is.
It is NOT what Christians believe or teach.

It is pure misrepresentation.
So thank you for demonstrating the rotten "fruits" of Mormonism.

brotherofJared said:
Why, even Mormons can do that.
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Yes, and they do it all the time.
You are a perfect example.

brotherofJared said:
That is in direct contradiction to the scriptures. Those whose deeds in life are good will be resurrected to life those whose deeds are evil in life will be resurrected the damnation. The key word here is deeds and the kind of deeds that you do.
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But what you don't seem to understand (or what you refuse to acknowledge) is that just becuase we recognize GOD'S TRUTH that no one is able to keep the commandments (Rom. 3:19-20, Isa. 64:6, etc.), we STILL strive to keep them anyway. We don't turn into anti-nominanists, who hate the law.

Why you feel the need to MISREPRESENT us in this way, I don't understand.

But despite what the Scriptures teach about "deeds", you keep IGNORING all the Scriptures which refute your false teachings:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.​
​
2Tim. 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,​
​
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,​
​
Rom. 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:​
​
Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.​
 
Bonnie said:
I get so tired of being accused falsely of making false statements about the LDS church and its beliefs.
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I really don't think you get tired. I think you thrive on this stuff. It gives you something to do on your days off. It's obvious that you aren't tired enough to quit piping your same false ideas about what we believe. You will not stand for correction. Your truth is the only truth.

The fact is the Bible teaches that those whose deeds are good will be resurrected to life. It says nothing there about who you believe in or what you believe in. And it says nothing there about eternal life. You assert your own personal truth into the scriptures and then that becomes the fact. You don't really need the scriptures, it's a nice outline once you modified it to fit your needs.

One would think that if you believe the Bible that John 5:29 will make you stop and think, what could that possibly mean? But that's not what you do. You ignore what it says and then add your own words so that you're comfortable again. But those who have the Holy Ghost do not need to be comforted by adding their own words so that it fits their theology. The truth is revealed when the Holy Ghost is present.

You all are not in a position to add words to the verse. It makes no mention of a belief in anything. It makes no mention of eternal life. What that creates is a group of people who will be resurrected to life and not to hell and yet they won't go to heaven. Because heaven would be eternal life which the passage makes no mention of. So you just insert it. But being under the influence of the Holy Ghost Joseph Smith was able to discern from this passage that there must be more to the resurrection and the outcome of the resurrection been simple heaven or hell. And you all just don't see it. You keep stumbling over it and making it fit your belief without ever considering what it's actually saying.

It used to puzzle me how John 5:29 led to a two-person vision, meaning two people saw the same vision at the same time in the same place, That explain how the rest of the scriptures talk about a better resurrection but that there must be other places besides two, heaven and hell, and so we have section 88 of the doctrine and covenants.

You know, the funny thing is, if it weren't for arguing with you guys I probably never would have seen it. Where arguing with you all only solidifies my testimony. I am amazed at every turn, no matter what you guys throw up, that Joseph Smith was spot-on on every form of doctrine. Jesus Christ's Church is restored on the earth and it does have a living prophet at its head. And while your churches are quibbling over how to keep your youth from leaving the church, our youth are spreading the gospel over the earth in a more organized missionary fashion than you all ever even dreamed. Two by two, the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by them is preparing the earth for the Lord's physical return in glory. Meanwhile that which is not true cannot survive. Truth always prevails.

If you all are right. God will just know what I would have chosen had I known. But you're not right so... Better to err on the side of the scriptures and cease from sin so that God's wonderful grace through Christ can work in me unto perfection.
 
brotherofJared said:
I really don't think you get tired. I think you thrive on this stuff. It gives you something to do on your days off. It's obvious that you aren't tired enough to quit piping your same false ideas about what we believe. You will not stand for correction. Your truth is the only truth.

The fact is the Bible teaches that those whose deeds are good will be resurrected to life. It says nothing there about who you believe in or what you believe in. And it says nothing there about eternal life. You assert your own personal truth into the scriptures and then that becomes the fact. You don't really need the scriptures, it's a nice outline once you modified it to fit your needs.

One would think that if you believe the Bible that John 5:29 will make you stop and think, what could that possibly mean? But that's not what you do. You ignore what it says and then add your own words so that you're comfortable again. But those who have the Holy Ghost do not need to be comforted by adding their own words so that it fits their theology. The truth is revealed when the Holy Ghost is present.

You all are not in a position to add words to the verse. It makes no mention of a belief in anything. It makes no mention of eternal life. What that creates is a group of people who will be resurrected to life and not to hell and yet they won't go to heaven. Because heaven would be eternal life which the passage makes no mention of. So you just insert it. But being under the influence of the Holy Ghost Joseph Smith was able to discern from this passage that there must be more to the resurrection and the outcome of the resurrection been simple heaven or hell. And you all just don't see it. You keep stumbling over it and making it fit your belief without ever considering what it's actually saying.

It used to puzzle me how John 5:29 led to a two-person vision, meaning two people saw the same vision at the same time in the same place, That explain how the rest of the scriptures talk about a better resurrection but that there must be other places besides two, heaven and hell, and so we have section 88 of the doctrine and covenants.

You know, the funny thing is, if it weren't for arguing with you guys I probably never would have seen it. Where arguing with you all only solidifies my testimony. I am amazed at every turn, no matter what you guys throw up, that Joseph Smith was spot-on on every form of doctrine. Jesus Christ's Church is restored on the earth and it does have a living prophet at its head. And while your churches are quibbling over how to keep your youth from leaving the church, our youth are spreading the gospel over the earth in a more organized missionary fashion than you all ever even dreamed. Two by two, the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by them is preparing the earth for the Lord's physical return in glory. Meanwhile that which is not true cannot survive. Truth always prevails.

If you all are right. God will just know what I would have chosen had I known. But you're not right so... Better to err on the side of the scriptures and cease from sin so that God's wonderful grace through Christ can work in me unto perfection.
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John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
 
brotherofJared said:
I really don't think you get tired. I think you thrive on this stuff.
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So you're calling her a liar?!
Why are Mormons so disrespectful to women?

If you don't think we have the integrity to tell the truth, I guess that means that we are justified in assuming that MORMONS don't have the integrity to tell the truth.

But it seems to me that Mormon posts have one goal:
"Ignore the man behind the curtain".
Ignore the truth, just continue to accept Mormon false teachings.

brotherofJared said:
It gives you something to do on your days off. It's obvious that you aren't tired enough to quit piping your same false ideas about what we believe. You will not stand for correction.
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Um, you guys never OFFER any "correction".
"Tain't so!" is not a "correction".

brotherofJared said:
Your truth is the only truth.
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Well, to Christians, there is only ONE truth, God's truth.

I guess Mormons have bought into the woke idea of "my truth" and "your truth". You sound like a Dr Pepper commercial:

"I'm a Pepper,​
You're a Pepper,​
he's a Pepper,​
she's a Pepper,​
wouldn't ya like to be a Pepper, too?"​

brotherofJared said:
The fact is the Bible teaches that those whose deeds are good will be resurrected to life.
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Yes, it does.
And it is those same people do good deeds because:
1) they've been regenerated; and'
2) they believe on Christ.

For the 2,847th time, "good deeds" aren't the "cause" of eternal life.
They are the FRUITS, the WITNESS that someone has eternal life.

brotherofJared said:
One would think that if you believe the Bible that John 5:29 will make you stop and think, what could that possibly mean?
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We already know what it means.
It's the Mormons who keep misinterpreting it.

brotherofJared said:
But that's not what you do. You ignore what it says
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No, we don't "ignore" anything.
The only thing we "ignore" is your ERRANT understanding.
 
Salvation from spiritual death isn't free.

The third article of faith declares that "through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." To be saved--or to gain salvation--means to be saved from physical and spiritual death. Because of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected and saved from physical death. People may also be saved from individual spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by their faith in Him, by living in obedience to the laws and ordinances of His gospel, and by serving Him.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Christ Saves Us from Physical and Spiritual Death

(2 Nephi 9:6-24) Elder Russell M. Nelson talks about how Christ saves us from physical and spiritual death.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org

The other death Mormons refer to as "salvation from physical death;" we don't refer to reurrection as salvation.
 
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Theo1689 said:
At least you admit that it's a lie, because it is.
It is NOT what Christians believe or teach.

It is pure misrepresentation.
So thank you for demonstrating the rotten "fruits" of Mormonism.



Yes, and they do it all the time.
You are a perfect example.



But what you don't seem to understand (or what you refuse to acknowledge) is that just becuase we recognize GOD'S TRUTH that no one is able to keep the commandments (Rom. 3:19-20, Isa. 64:6, etc.), we STILL strive to keep them anyway. We don't turn into anti-nominanists, who hate the law.

Why you feel the need to MISREPRESENT us in this way, I don't understand.

But despite what the Scriptures teach about "deeds", you keep IGNORING all the Scriptures which refute your false teachings:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.​
​
2Tim. 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,​
​
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,​
​
Rom. 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:​
​
Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.​
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If you love me, keep my commandments.... oh my!...... SO Theo, do you love God?
 
Richard7 said:
If you love me, keep my commandments.... oh my!...... SO Theo, do you love God?
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Of course I love God.
I'm not a Mormon, after all...

And this is what I obey (please try to pay attention):

1John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.​

This comes from the Bible, which is why I know you don't recognize it.
 
Janice Bower said:
I believe you are just plain confused by following false teachers instead of God's word; 2 Timothy 3:16.


We are not discussing that because God's word gives ample proof of itself.



Those who are being saved are serving GOD(doing good). Those of the world have not the Spirit of Christ and don't follow Him.

If they follow Him because of His indwelling Spirit they love Him and follow Him instead of false teachers---plain and simple!



Christians believe that.
Philippians 1
4In every prayer for all of you, I always pray with joy, 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

God didn't begin the work you see in unprofitable servants but you are not the judge.


Christians believe all of the Bible. The gift of God is eternal life. Why follow false teachers?
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Because people want to hear someone who tells them what they WANT to hear, rather than what they NEED to hear. They accumulate teachers for themselves that yell them what their itching ears want to hear.
Janice Bower said:
Salvation from spiritual death isn't free.

The third article of faith declares that "through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." To be saved--or to gain salvation--means to be saved from physical and spiritual death. Because of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected and saved from physical death. People may also be saved from individual spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by their faith in Him, by living in obedience to the laws and ordinances of His gospel, and by serving Him.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Christ Saves Us from Physical and Spiritual Death

(2 Nephi 9:6-24) Elder Russell M. Nelson talks about how Christ saves us from physical and spiritual death.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org

The other death Mormons refer to as "salvation from physical death;" we don't refer to resurrection as salvation.
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It is hardly "salvation" to be resurrected to spend eternity in hell with the devil and all his angels!
 
Richard7 said:
If you love me, keep my commandments.... oh my!...... SO Theo, do you love God?
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Do you? Do those "commandments" include the ones Mormons must keep if they want to keep a temple recommend, so they can be "exalted" to "godhood" in the CK after death? Like, being baptized for dead people; being married and having those marriages sealed in your temples; observing the WoW; wearing temple undergarments for the rest of one's life; paying a full tithe, fulfilling one's "callings" in your church.....

Did Jesus mean these "commandments" when He said "if you love Me, keep my commandments"?

But what does 1 John 3 say? "And this is His commandment: that we believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He has commanded us."

Pretty simple, eh? See any of those temple commands listed in this verse?
 
Janice Bower said:
Mormon Justification.

Justification, justify, justified: “To be pardoned from punishment for sin and declared guiltless. A person is justified by the Savior's grace through faith in Him. This faith is shown by repentance and obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-seminary-teacher-manual-2023/romans-2-3?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-seminary-teacher-manual-2023/romans-2-3?lang=eng#:~:text=Justification, justify, justified: “,and ordinances of the gospel.
Seriously?
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I thought dberrie claimed everyone is justified.
 
Janice Bower said:
I thought dberrie claimed everyone is justified.
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Yep. Unto life, not eternal life. Pay attention. He's not redefining words as you all do. John 5:29 clearly indicates that life and eternal life are separate issues. It's a distinction you all don't seem to realize. I think it's because you don't have any idea what the truth is.

If good works brings about the resurrection to life, then and eternal life requires faith in God, then there is obviously more that heaven and hell. Then you have Paul building on that by describing three glories in the resurrection. Do you all not get that? Resurrection? Clueless maybe? Yea. Probably.
 
Janice Bower said:
AND non-Mormons are of the devil unless they earn eternal life which can only be done by embracing/obeying Mormonism.
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We teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, you don't. We have the authority to administer that gospel, you don't (speaking to the group of critics here). We both might be wrong, but we both can't be right. Spewing your opinion isn't going to make your case.

You are right that we believe that the saving ordinances can only be administered through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That's because we believe it's Christ's church. After all, there can be only one true church, not 36,000. If our church is not it, then it would be another. But you would be hard-pressed to find one that has temples and the priesthood as described in the church that Jesus Christ established.
 
Janice Bower said:
I believe you are just plain confused by following false teachers instead of God's word; 2 Timothy 3:16.
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All scripture is including the Book of Mormon and the doctrine covenants and the program price. You all believe that we don't need any more of God's word. But 36,000 different Christian sects indicates that we desperately need as much of God's word as we can get.
 
Janice Bower said:
We are not discussing that because God's word gives ample proof of itself.
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It's not surprising that you can't make the connection between what we are discussing and what was posted.

Please note, what followed the post was God's word. And you seem to just continue to ignore it.
 
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