The Problem of Natural Evil... Again

stiggy wiggy said:
Absurd comment. No way in hell, on my own, I could invent the plan of redemption as laid out by Paul via the unique and glorious revelation given to him by God. But I'm flattered you would think I could. Thanks.
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You can't understand the need for salvation without accepting the Christion worldview on damnation. These concepts are paired in an embrace, unless you make up some new "damnation lite" like the new age wisdoms try to rationalize. Sounds like that's what you do.
stiggy wiggy said:
Correct. Our minds must be malleable before they can be renewed. Every once in a while you hit on a truth.
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Thus 10's of thousands of invented theories and dogmas on the matter... and many such as Christianity claiming its set of thoughts are sacrosanct. We then look for them to be so despite the glaring incoherencies. Why? We all have malleable personal relationships validating any set of thoughts we personally feel are sacrosanct.

In this way religious conviction mimics romantic infatuation, and we know that the later is a crapshoot because too often it is proven to be wrong headed. You agree with that... with regards to other's religious infatuations.... just not your own.
 
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5wize said:
You can't understand the need for salvation without accepting the Christion worldview on damnation. These concepts are paired in an embrace, unless you make up some new "damnation lite" like the new age wisdoms try to rationalize. Sounds like that's what you do.
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You're damn sure hung up on damnation. Paired? Being saved from damnation is one thing, not two.


5wize said:
Thus 10's of thousands of invented theories and dogmas on the matter...
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Nope, no theories, plural. Just one truth, singular: Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead.

5wize said:
In this way religious conviction mimics romantic infatuation,
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Nope, you've got that reversed.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
You're damn sure hung up on damnation. Paired? Being saved from damnation is one thing, not two.
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No, it's definitely 2 things given that the damnation happened in the garden and salvation came eons after. They did not even exist simultaneously to be considered one thing.
stiggy wiggy said:
Nope, no theories, plural. Just one truth, singular: Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead.
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Why was that necessary?
stiggy wiggy said:
Nope, you've got that reversed.
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It's communicative.
 
5wize said:
No, it's definitely 2 things given that the damnation happened in the garden and salvation came eons after. They did not even exist simultaneously to be considered one thing.
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Yeah, kind of like how eating dinner is two things: (1). You get hungry. (2) You eat.
 
5wize said:
No, it's definitely 2 things given that the damnation happened in the garden and salvation came eons after. They did not even exist simultaneously to be considered one thing.
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When did salvation come?

Gen 5:24 said Enoch walked with God, and then was not because God took him [to heaven]. That is confirmed in the NT in Heb 11:5.

Was Enoch saved before salvation came?

If so, how could that be? How could Enoch be saved if salvation hadn't come in Enoch's lifetime? Maybe God is always, or eternally a saving God? Do you think that could be?
 
Howie said:
When did salvation come?

Gen 5:24 said Enoch walked with God, and then was not because God took him [to heaven]. That is confirmed in the NT in Heb 11:5.

Was Enoch saved before salvation came?

If so, how could that be? How could Enoch be saved if salvation hadn't come in Enoch's lifetime? Maybe God is always, or eternally a saving God? Do you think that could be?
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Enoch wasn't saved. Not in the way Jesus saves. Enoch was taken to heaven as a result of righteousness, not grace.

Are you trying to sell salvation by righteousness now as what Jesus was fulfilling? Are you trying to claim Enoch was saved by grace?

You're getting tangled on your own self now.
 
5wize said:
Enoch wasn't saved. Not in the way Jesus saves. Enoch was taken to heaven as a result of righteousness, not grace.
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Salvation is eternally by grace through faith Gen 15:6, Rom 4; Eph 28ff, et. al. God saved Enoch.

5wize said:
Are you trying to sell salvation by righteousness now as what Jesus was fulfilling? Are you trying to claim Enoch was saved by grace?

You're getting tangled on your own self now.
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See above response.
 
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