Tongues shall cease. - 1 Cor 13:8

[Bob Carabbio]

I hope some day you leave that all behind and come to the truth, and read the Bible without denominational lenses.

Take you own advice. Good bye.

 

[Mikey1967]

Keep on showing that lack of Galatians 5:22-23 spiritual fruits, just only further emphasizing my point.

No fruits of the Spirit = no gifts of the Spirit. So what spirit is the pentecostalist babble really of? The answer is obvious. And the more devout the pentecostalist, the more hateful and angry and intolerant of sound biblical doctrine they are.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.“
2 Timothy 4:3-4

Nice is not spiritual fruits when calling out a false teacher. Try reading again the purpose of tongues in what I posted if you can.

 

[Mikey1967]

While most who believe like you do believe that there are two different gifts of Tongues, where do you see Paul saying that the one he is speaking of in 1 Corinthians 12-14 is a different gift of Tongues from what was manifested on the day of Pentecost or in any other account of this gift in the Book of Acts?

Where is your proof from the actual scriptures themselves that there are two different gifts of Tongues and each given for a different purpose?

1 Cor 14.
READ the chapter in context.

1 Corinthians 14:1-2 In context: Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
Here is the original Greek is that helps: Διώκετε τὴν ἀγάπην, ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ πνευματικά, μᾶλλον δὲ ἵνα προφητεύητε. 2 ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

This is the definition of tongues. NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. Catch that? No one understands him, not even himself.

Paul also brings into the conversation prophecy. Why? Because he is going to show you a comparison and distinction in the use of tongues. One purpose is that of private prayer, and the other is openly standing in a congregation and making a declaration in tongues which you considers....wait for it, PROPHECY. And since prophecy is to edify the church, and open tongues as a declaration is a form of prophecy, then there needs to be someone to interpret that prophecy from an unknown language. 1 Corinthians 14:4-5: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues unless someone interprets so that the church may be built up."

NOW, notice the definition for tongues is still the same. It is NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. This is about the USE of tongues, orderly in the Church gathering.

You see, Paul then states HOW to use tongues that are being spoken and declared in the open congregation of the Church in 1 Corinthian 14:13- 16: "Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider2 say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?" As a point, Paul points out how to SPEAK in tongues appropriately as prophecy in Church and acknowledges tongues in prayer by a short compare/contrast of the two in summation. Then he points out in vs.18: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you."

Paul then concludes with this: vs. "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40, but all things should be done decently and in order."

Notice what he said? So in all this rejection people actually proved themselves wrong. People cherry-pick verses that they thought they can take out of context to support what they have decided to believe.

 

[Mikey1967]

That is wrong, for Paul is speaking to the Corinthians concerning the way they were using or abusing this gift and he is not saying that this is what the gift was intended for by any means.

Let me ask you this also, for most in your churches believe and teach that there are two different gifts of tongues, so where do you get this from the actual scriptures that you claim to believe in then?

Where did Paul say he was speaking of a different and separate gift of Tongues different from the one manifesed on the day of Pentecost?

The one manifested on the day Pentecost is the same now. The miracle was in the hearing not the Tongues. Otherwise why would there need to be an interpreter?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Where in the above passage is it specified as a prayer language and where does it say that this gift is for sefl edification and that no interpretation is needed when using the gift, I fail to see that in this passage, so where is it?

Now don't you go all ignorant too. Interpretation is not written about here, so open your mind and grasp the truth of the matter. Just because you didn't know there were two doesn't mean you can't learn and even more accept it.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

What a bunch of baloney. Good copy and paste.

Here is what 1 Cor. 14 actually means.

1 Corinthians 14:1-2 In context: Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Here is the original Greek is that helps: Διώκετε τὴν ἀγάπην, ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ πνευματικά, μᾶλλον δὲ ἵνα προφητεύητε. 2 ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

This is the definition of tongues. NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. Catch that? No one understands him, not even himself.

Paul also brings into the conversation prophecy. Why? Because he is going to show you a comparison and distinction in the use of tongues. One purpose is that of private prayer, and the other is openly standing in a congregation and making a declaration in tongues, which is considered....wait for it, PROPHECY. And since prophecy is to edify the church, and open tongues as a declaration is a form of prophecy, then there needs to be someone to interpret that prophecy from an unknown language. 1 Corinthians 14:4-5: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues unless someone interprets so that the church may be built up."

NOW, notice the definition for tongues is still the same. It is NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. This is about the USE of tongues, orderly in the Church gathering.

You see, Paul then states HOW to use tongues that are being spoken and declared in the open congregation of the Church in 1 Corinthian 14:13- 16: "Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider2 say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?" As a point, Paul points out how to SPEAK in tongues appropriately as prophecy in Church and acknowledges tongues in prayer by a short compare/contrast of the two in summation. Then he points out in vs.18: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you."

Paul then concludes with this: vs. "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40, but all things should be done decently and in order."

Notice what he said? So in all this rejection people actually proved themselves wrong. People cherry-pick verses that they thought they can take out of context to support what they have decided to believe.

Great job. I am in agreement with your exegesis. Sad they don,t understand with what the Word says.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that Paul is addressing the incorrect use of the gifts by the Corinthians because they have moved away from learning truth in the scriptures by the Spirit to their attempting to learn it by the fleshly wisdom of this world through the carnal mind.

See 1 Corinthians 2:13-16 and then 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. They were carnal and therefore they were in error on many issues including the proper use of the gifts and especially tongues.

So when he says "he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks unto God for no man understands him", he is speaking of their improper uses of this gift.

In other words, the way they were abusing it, they were only speaking to God and not to men because only God could understand them and he is by no means saying this is the way it was intended to be used either.

Now then, here is something you need to think about, for why would you need to speak to God in any unknown tongue when he has no problem understanding whatever language you speak being he gave them all in Genesis 11 to begin with?

I will also say this, for Paul very clearly said that this gift shouldn't even be used at all unless there is also an interpreter and yet today Paul's words are ignored completely by many churches and church leaders and yet they believe they are right in there with God when really they couldn't be further from him.

Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all of you. Never says he spoke them in the Church. He was using this gift for his personal use.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that Paul is addressing the incorrect use of the gifts by the Corinthians because they have moved away from learning truth in the scriptures by the Spirit to their attempting to learn it by the fleshly wisdom of this world through the carnal mind.

See 1 Corinthians 2:13-16 and then 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. They were carnal and therefore they were in error on many issues including the proper use of the gifts and especially tongues.

So when he says "he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks unto God for no man understands him", he is speaking of their improper uses of this gift.

In other words, the way they were abusing it, they were only speaking to God and not to men because only God could understand them and he is by no means saying this is the way it was intended to be used either.

Now then, here is something you need to think about, for why would you need to speak to God in any unknown tongue when he has no problem understanding whatever language you speak being he gave them all in Genesis 11 to begin with?

I will also say this, for Paul very clearly said that this gift shouldn't even be used at all unless there is also an interpreter and yet today Paul's words are ignored completely by many churches and church leaders and yet they believe they are right in there with God when really they couldn't be further from him.

I understand its your opinion.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Says ‘good copy and paste’..proceeds to copy and paste from one of his own posts, LOL..’test the spirits’ as it is written..and you’ve just shown yourself to be a hypocrite. I don’t say that to be unkind but what else is someone who accuses others of doing exactly what they are doing? Wait, they also call that narcissistic projection as well. Not good. And the honest truth is, that this is the same exact behavior I have seen time and time again from adherents of the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions. Their ridiculous and unbiblical heresies aside, the spirit of this movement is wicked and full of hypocrisy and other narcissistic tendencies such as attempts to spiritually grandstand. When the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the entire body.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.“
1 John 4:1

That sums up the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions perfectly. It is also hypocritical projection of you to accuse others of cherry picking verses and taking them out of context because again, that is exactly what you are doing.

You pentecostalists constantly ignore the fact that the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole. Babbling in jibberish that no one can understand does the church no good whatsoever. So you’ve already strayed from biblical doctrine with that fact alone.

So your manmade doctrine is based on the claim that Paul goes from speaking about incoherent babbling to ones self (which edifies no one, thus Paul is contradicting himself when he says the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the whole church), then Paul switches up midway through the chapter and now is teaching about incoherent babble to an entire congregation. So it’s settled everyone, there’s two different kinds of jibberish Paul was talking about in the same chapter LOL, just ignore Acts 2 where it makes it clear that ‘tongues’ refers to actual earthly languages understood by others. Just have to keep entirely ignoring the biblical definition of the word ‘tongues’ which is described clearly in Acts 2..real, intelligible national languages that can be interpreted.

Also, do you speak in archaic KJV language in your everyday life? We both know you don’t..so you can drop the ‘tongues’ nonsense and use the modern word of LANGUAGES. That’s how this whole babble doctrine started, misuse of an archaic word for actual ethnic languages.

Also, the way that the charismaticists and pentecostalists practice their devil babble is far from orderly, they look like lunatics.

‘Tongues’ in the scriptures refers to actual earthly languages that can be understood by others..not babble that only creates confusion. The purpose of spiritual gifts are to edify the whole body, not pseudo-spiritual grandstanding.

And how do you know these ‘mysteries’ you utter are not blasphemies? Based on the hypocrisy and other godless narcissistic behavior I have witnessed time and time again from adherents of the pentecostalist religion, I would say it is quite likely they do blaspheme God when they do their vain babblings. It is already clear they completely butcher His Word and twist it way out of context to align with their heresy.

Your opinion is noted.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

And how do you know these ‘mysteries’ you utter are not blasphemies? Based on the hypocrisy and other godless narcissistic behavior I have witnessed time and time again from adherents of the pentecostalist religion, I would say it is quite likely they do blaspheme God when they do their vain babblings. It is already clear they completely butcher His Word and twist it way out of context to align with their heresy.

And how do you know that they are not blasphemies? You wouldnt know for only God understands this Gift.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

I wrote what I posted too, Mikey. You know you don’t write in Greek. Why do you seem angry? Unrighteous anger is not of God.

I can discern just fine. You have already established yourself a hypocrite, a projectionist. Resorting to ad hominem name calling (pathetic), while I ever attacked you like that, only your false doctrine. You make it clear what you’re really about. So even if the pentecostalist religion wasn’t heresy, you are surely not a proper ambassador for it. But it is indeed a manmade religious movement.

As for those like yourself who twist Paul’s words to conform to a manmade doctrine less than 200 years old, meditate on this:

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:15-17

Do you speak in tongues? Just curious.

 

[CharismaticLady]

By the way, where in those verses do you get this idea that all believers will speak in tongues?

The same way we know that ALL believers are to be baptized from these verses.

What about where Paul says, do all speak in Tongues, do all interpret, do all prophecy, etc, etc?

Go back and do more than scan my post. There are TWO with their own rules that DO NOT apply to the other.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

1 Cor 14.
READ the chapter in context.

1 Corinthians 14:1-2 In context: Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
Here is the original Greek is that helps: Διώκετε τὴν ἀγάπην, ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ πνευματικά, μᾶλλον δὲ ἵνα προφητεύητε. 2 ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

This is the definition of tongues. NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. Catch that? No one understands him, not even himself.

Paul also brings into the conversation prophecy. Why? Because he is going to show you a comparison and distinction in the use of tongues. One purpose is that of private prayer, and the other is openly standing in a congregation and making a declaration in tongues which you considers....wait for it, PROPHECY. And since prophecy is to edify the church, and open tongues as a declaration is a form of prophecy, then there needs to be someone to interpret that prophecy from an unknown language. 1 Corinthians 14:4-5: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues unless someone interprets so that the church may be built up."

NOW, notice the definition for tongues is still the same. It is NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. This is about the USE of tongues, orderly in the Church gathering.

You see, Paul then states HOW to use tongues that are being spoken and declared in the open congregation of the Church in 1 Corinthian 14:13- 16: "Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider2 say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?" As a point, Paul points out how to SPEAK in tongues appropriately as prophecy in Church and acknowledges tongues in prayer by a short compare/contrast of the two in summation. Then he points out in vs.18: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you."

Paul then concludes with this: vs. "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40, but all things should be done decently and in order."

Notice what he said? So in all this rejection people actually proved themselves wrong. People cherry-pick verses that they thought they can take out of context to support what they have decided to believe.

Again, Paul is addressing a carnal church and one who has made tongues more important than any other gift and have also misused the gift in that they were speaking tongues unto themselves and not as a means of communicating the truth to others and also without an interpreter and just as it is also being abused today as well.

Of course as it is used by the churches today, it isn't even the genuine gift anyhow but the point is still the same concerning the church of Corinth.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

The one manifested on the day Pentecost is the same now. The miracle was in the hearing not the Tongues. Otherwise why would there need to be an interpreter?

Wow, you don't know huh?

The interpreter is needed when the gift is used in the church so that not only the one who it is given for and who speaks that language can understand it but also the whole church as well.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Now don't you go all ignorant too. Interpretation is not written about here, so open your mind and grasp the truth of the matter. Just because you didn't know there were two doesn't mean you can't learn and even more accept it.

LOL, it doesn't need to be because all that those verses were saying is that those gifts followed those who believe and meaning those who believe as a whole and not individually and that is why Paul asked the question, "do all speak in tongues" because not every believer would have this gift.

Furthermore I used to believe there were two myself because I used to be charismatic pentecostal myself and attended an Asemblies of God church in Sarasota Florida for better than 25 years and one closely associated with "The Christian Retreat" in Bradenton Florida under Gerald Derstein and now pastored by his son Phil Derstein.

I have also spoken in tongues myself and no longer believe that it was from the Holy Spirit any more than being slain in the Spirit is either, for both of these as used in your apostate churches are counterfeits of the antichrist whom you are follow the image of in place of the true Christ of the scriptures.

By the way, this is what the Bible calls the image of the beast, so when we stand before God, you wont be able to say that no one warned you about it.

For when that image of the beast or antichrist is completed within you and that you are evennow being conformed to the image of, you will have the mark of the beast lock, stock and barrel and your thinking = (forehead) and your fellowship and actions = (right hand) will reveal it also.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Now don't you go all ignorant too. Interpretation is not written about here, so open your mind and grasp the truth of the matter. Just because you didn't know there were two doesn't mean you can't learn and even more accept it.

LOL, it doesn't need to be because all that those verses were saying is that those gifts followed those who believe and meaning those who believe as a whole and not individually and that is why Paul asked the question, "do all speak in tongues" because not every believer would have this gift.

Furthermore I used to believe there were two myself because I used to be charismatic pentecostal myself and attended an Asemblies of God church in Sarasota Florida for better than 25 years and one closely associated with "The Christian Retreat" in Bradenton Florida under Gerald Derstein and now pastored by his son Phil Derstein.

I have also spoken in tongues myself and no longer believe that it was from the Holy Spirit any more than being slain in the Spirit is either, for both of these as used in your apostate churches are counterfeits of the antichrist whom you are follow the image of in place of the true Christ of the scriptures.

By the way, this is what the Bible calls the image of the beast, so when we stand before God, you wont be able to say that no one warned you about it.

For when that image of the beast or antichrist is completed within you and that you are evennow being conformed to the image of, you will have the mark of the beast lock, stock and barrel and your thinking = (forehead) and your fellowship and actions = (right hand) will reveal it also.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all of you. Never says he spoke them in the Church. He was using this gift for his personal use.

LOL, now that is about as lame an answer as one can get,, for how do you know this only on the basis that he doesn't say how he used them or why or when?

You don't, but you only would like to think that you do and which is usual for those who follow the teachings of the apostate churches.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

I understand its your opinion.

Did you express this thinking that I actually would really care about what you think what I said is?

For isn't it amazing that I think the same thing about what you believe and say also but I don't bother saying it because it doesn't really matter anyhow but only the truth does and you will soon enough know see what that truly is when but if I were you in the mess that you are obviously in, I certainly wouldn't want to rush towards that day.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

The same way we know that ALL believers are to be baptized from these verses.

Wow, what ignorance!

Sorry but baptism is a commandment and speaking in tongues isn't.

Go back and do more than scan my post. There are TWO with their own rules that DO NOT apply to the other.

I don't care about what you say about it but only what the Bible clearly says about it and it never reveals that there are two separate gifts of tongues period.

So have fun in your delusional fantasia of ignorant bliss while you still have time for the end of that ignorant foolishness is on its way.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

First we have the manifestation of tongues for all who believe in Jesus individually, and note it is without interpretation:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues (TO GOD AS IN PRAYER); 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

The Hebrew idiom about serpents and poison is meaning God's divine protection. It is not literal as some in a few back woods Pentecostal churches practice.

Now for the profit of all:

1 Corinthians 12:8-10. There is a different tongues manifestation that sounds the same, BUT it MUST be interpreted and the direction from the Holy Spirit is FROM God. We find it used like the gift of prophecy. This is the real reason "prophecy" is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14. Paul is not comparing speaking in tongues TO God to the gift of prophecy from 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. He is comparing these two different manifestations of tongues! The "prophetic tongues" is not given to all who believe like the prayer language is. Jesus does not give this specialized office to everyone. That is why 1 Corinthians 12:30 says it is not. And because these are like an office, those with the gift of interpretation must be present for those with the gift of prophetic tongues to speak. If they are not present, then those with only the gift of prophetic tongues must keep silent. Prophecy is not the only thing those with this office can do with this gift. 1 Corinthians 14:6 shows other messages from God it could be.

Your idea about 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 all pertaining to this second tongue bit is a bunch of nonsense and there is nothing in those verses to suggest any such thing.

What you are doing in that, is reading into the word's "By the Spirit" as though Paul is speaking of tongues as an office of those manifestations that he speaks of and that is hogwash.

All of the gifts are from the same Holy Spirit and you cannot read into these verses that the word "Spirit" means speaking in differing manifestations of tongues and that appears to be what you are doing from what you are saying and I caught this the first time I read it also, so I didn't only scan it like you think I did.

Sorry but there is nothing in these verses that supports your false idea that in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 that Paul is speaking of another gift of tongues from what was manifested on the day of Pentecost, nothing whatsoever, but instead and like usual, you are reading into it what doesn't exist within it.