"Unpaid Ministry" - A series of thoughts

[Richard7]

Yeah, it gets even richer and more bloated, becoming more like a corporation than a true church all the time...


Oh, really?

These people gave that much because they WANTED to, not because they HAD to. Unless you can show us a COMMAND in the NT to tithe...can you, Richard?

What is Gods storehouse?

Malachi 3:10

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows

Evangelicals don't like the Old Testament and hardly ever teach from it for the reason they hate tithing.

 

[organgrinder]

What is Gods storehouse?

Malachi 3:10

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows

Evangelicals don't like the Old Testament and hardly ever teach from it for the reason they hate tithing.

A broad sweeping assumption that is false. Proof or just your little old opinion.

 

[Richard7]

A broad sweeping assumption that is false. Proof or just your little old opinion.

Well its obvious Organgrinder... Church are hurting for money, have to get mortgages to even open a church building and pay the pastor..
Tithing is the answer and yet you guys are in denial of its blessings... chuckle.

 

[Theo1689]

Well its obvious Organgrinder... Church are hurting for money, have to get mortgages to even open a church building and pay the pastor..
Tithing is the answer and yet you guys are in denial of its blessings... chuckle.

Once again, Mormons demonstrate their ignorance of and rejection of Scripture:

2Cor. 9:7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[Richard7]

Once again, Mormons demonstrate their ignorance of and rejection of Scripture:

2Cor. 9:7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

And see if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing one cannot even contain...

 

[Theo1689]

I haven't read her book in some years, but she did have misgivings about the racism in Mormon history, and the unequal way one of her sons was disciplined for something he did on his missionary stint. He got excommunicated, even though he repented with tears before those in judgment of him--I forget that that is called--yet his partner in his missionary stint did the same thing, and only got a slap on the wrist from his leadership.

Okay, I didn't realize that was based on her son's discipline.

I don't remember her writing anything about patriarchal blessings, or the idea that Christ couldn't cover certain sins, or David losing his exaltation. If she did, I may simply have forgotten it.

These are found in Lynn's testimony as posted on the MRM website.

I did want to mention that one of my favourite YTers is Amala Ekpunobi froM Prager U. If you're not familiar, she's a 22-year-old biracial woman who was raised by an activist Leftist mom, and was raised helping out the activism, and became an activist in high school (BLM, "I can't breathe"). She was trained to believe that America was racist. For instance, she was told that any kid who wanted to touch her hair was racist. She eventually realized that they were simply being innocently curious.

She has a video called, "Why I Left the Left", she gives her testimony of becoming conservative, and it reminded me of Lynn's testimony of leaving Mormonism. It was gradual, it was uncomfortable, problems kept coming up. She was told that White people were evil, which conflicted with the fact that she was being raised by a mostly White family. She was pulled over for speeding, and was visibly upset when the cop pulled her over, and went into panic mode when she saw that the cop was White. Not only did she not get murdered during the traffic stop, but the cop merely gave her a warning, and tried to console her and calm her down. This of course went against the Leftist narrative, she should have been murdered, doncha know. So she too did her research, and now she's a very eloquent and knowledgeable spokesperson for the right.

 

[organgrinder]

Well its obvious Organgrinder... Church are hurting for money, have to get mortgages to even open a church building and pay the pastor..
Tithing is the answer and yet you guys are in denial of its blessings... chuckle.

Again, another false statement based upon an assumption.

 

[Bonnie]

Well its obvious Organgrinder... Church are hurting for money, have to get mortgages to even open a church building and pay the pastor..
Tithing is the answer and yet you guys are in denial of its blessings... chuckle.

Oh? You have been to every single church in this country and asked about their finances? Is that it? OR is this just another unfounded comment of yours, one of many?

Our church has a mortgage, but we are managing to pay it off AND give our dear Pastor a good salary. Plus, we are growing in membership, so while some churches are indeed hurting, not all are.

Tithing is a fine starting place for giving to one's church, but so far, you have yet to show us where the NT church was COMMANDED to tithe, where it is a NT law. Why is that, Richard? Care to enlighten us?

 

[Bonnie]

Again, another false statement based upon an assumption.

Oh, you noticed! Shame on you, OG!

 

[Bonnie]

And see if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing one cannot even contain...

From the OT Law of Moses, Richard. The Levites didn't have a land inheritance to sustain them, so the Israelites needed to tithe to support them and their families, plus the tabernacle and later on, temple, with their many sacrifices and the upkeep of those establishments.

I have asked this before on here--WHY does your church teach THIS particular OT law? And not teach and follow the others? Like keeping kosher? Not mixing fabric? The cleanliness laws regarding women and menstruation and after giving birth? WHY does it follow this one LoM law, and not these others? Care to tell us, Richard?

But every non-Mormon on here knows the answer: because your church can't make money off following these teachings. But it certainly can with making its membership tithe, if they want to join and if they want to be "worthy" to get into your temples to perform all of the rituals done therein, like being baptized for the dead, the endowment, getting marriages "sealed" in the temple....all so a person will be "worthy" of "exaltation" to godhood in the highest level of the CK. In other words, your church practices spiritual blackmail....shameful.

 

[organgrinder]

Oh, you noticed! Shame on you, OG!

I know...I'm a bad boy.

 

[Richard7]

Oh? You have been to every single church in this country and asked about their finances? Is that it? OR is this just another unfounded comment of yours, one of many?

Sorry abut the blanket statement but their is truth to my assumption. Churches are struggling, if in a wealthy area then I imagine they are existing quite well....a lot of churches are renting buildings even mall strips. Ignoring tithing and its blessings is not helping the growth of christianity.
Do you not think tithing has its blessings? or its just the opposite a burden...

Our church has a mortgage, but we are managing to pay it off AND give our dear Pastor a good salary. Plus, we are growing in membership, so while some churches are indeed hurting, not all are.

Isn't your husband the pastor...

Tithing is a fine starting place for giving to one's church, but so far, you have yet to show us where the NT church was COMMANDED to tithe, where it is a NT law. Why is that, Richard? Care to enlighten us?

It is not apparently scripture in the NT, but tithing is one of Gods laws and commandments.... OT. That is why I say you and your churches are all NT churches and do not preach the OT much.

 

[Richard7]

Oh, you noticed! Shame on you, OG!

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices–mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.”
Matthew.

 

[organgrinder]

Sorry abut the blanket statement but their is truth to my assumption. Churches are struggling, if in a wealthy area then I imagine they are existing quite well....a lot of churches are renting buildings even mall strips. Ignoring tithing and its blessings is not helping the growth of christianity.
Do you not think tithing has its blessings? or its just the opposite a burden...


Isn't your husband the pastor...



It is not apparently scripture in the NT, but tithing is one of Gods laws and commandments.... OT. That is why I say you and your churches are all NT churches and do not preach the OT much.

You obviously haven't read or understood Hebrews and what happened to the OT law. You obviously don't understand grace and Paul's teaching on giving where no tithing is mentioned. It is from the heart as the Holy Spirit leads. God loves a cheerful (hilarious is a good translation of the word) giver.

You are steeped in the laws and checking the boxes. God is interested in grace and what He places in our hearts.

 

[Richard7]

You obviously haven't read or understood Hebrews and what happened to the OT law. You obviously don't understand grace and Paul's teaching on giving where no tithing is mentioned. It is from the heart as the Holy Spirit leads. God loves a cheerful (hilarious is a good translation of the word) giver.

You are steeped in the laws and checking the boxes. God is interested in grace and what He places in our hearts.

Chuckle, well we have 150 billion dollars as we speak in God's storehouse... seems tithing has its blessings... and who is benefiting, all members of Christ Church benefit in many different ways... love to teach you more but I feel you're to locked into the NT and have thrown the OT under the buss... I was right, now days the churches teach mostly the NT and are called NT Churches... hmm.

 

[Bonnie]

Chuckle, well we have 150 billion dollars as we speak in God's storehouse... seems tithing has its blessings... and who is benefiting, all members of Christ Church benefit in many different ways... love to teach you more but I feel you're to locked into the NT and have thrown the OT under the buss... I was right, now days the churches teach mostly the NT and are called NT Churches... hmm.

I don't see anyone in your church "benefiting" from the huge profits your church has made. It is as I have said before--your church is more of a corporation interested in making profits than it is a true church.

But being rich is not proof one is being blessed by God. In fact, it can be a curse. Your church may be rich in money, but it is bankrupt spiritually, since it preaches and teaches a false god, false savior (who is Satan's actual brother in the supposed pre-mortal existence), and a false doctrine, that includes many UNbiblical beliefs--all of which lead its membership away from the true Jesus Christ of the Bible who suffered, bled, and died to give us life eternal in His name in heaven with Him and His Father. LIFE ETERNAL--the free gift of God by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord--no Mormon temples and ordinances done therein are necessary!

See what Jesus says to a physically poor, struggling church:

Rev. 1--

To the Church in Smyrna​

8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Now, see what Jesus says to a wealthy church, in Rev. 2:

17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

This describes YOUR church and the boasting about its wealth I have seen from Mormons on here, from time to time.

 

[Richard7]

I don't see anyone in your church "benefiting" from the huge profits your church has made. It is as I have said before--your church is more of a corporation interested in making profits than it is a true church.

Well you're looking in all the wrong places for sure....part of my calling is to take care of the sick and otherwise afflicted... I work with the Bishop and you would never for a minute appreciate the poor and afflicted are receiving help from the Stake and the wards.

But being rich is not proof one is being blessed by God. In fact, it can be a curse. Your church may be rich in money, but it is bankrupt spiritually, since it preaches and teaches a false god, false savior (who is Satan's actual brother in the supposed pre-mortal existence), and a false doctrine, that includes many UNbiblical beliefs--all of which lead its membership away from the true Jesus Christ of the Bible who suffered, bled, and died to give us life eternal in His name in heaven with Him and His Father. LIFE ETERNAL--the free gift of God by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord--no Mormon temples and ordinances done therein are necessary!

Yada, yada and boring.

 

[Bonnie]

Sorry abut the blanket statement but their is truth to my assumption. Churches are struggling, if in a wealthy area then I imagine they are existing quite well....a lot of churches are renting buildings even mall strips. Ignoring tithing and its blessings is not helping the growth of christianity.

Some churches are struggling financially. I have seen it, too. But physical wealth isn't a requirement for a church or its leaders, for them to be a true church.

Do you not think tithing has its blessings? or its just the opposite a burden...

Sure it can--our church even has a program we went through years ago, called "The Blessings of Tithing." But it also emphasized that it isn't a NT law--IS IT, RICHARD?

If someone tithes, then it should be voluntary, not a law.

Isn't your husband the pastor...

not anymore--he retired 7 years ago. But when he was a pastor, he once voluntarily took a $10,000 paycut from his salary from the church, so it would be easier for them to build a sanctuary, since we were outgrowing the part of the old ranch home we had converted into a church that we used for worship. The congregation protested, but he insisted. He gradually got it back over the next few years.

It is not apparently scripture in the NT, but tithing is one of Gods laws and commandments.... OT. That is why I say you and your churches are all NT churches and do not preach the OT much.

Oh, so you admit it finally. But why does your church ignore the OTHER OT COMMANDMENTS--like keeping kosher? The clean/unclean laws concerning menstruation and childbirth? Not mixing fabrics? THESE are OT commandments and laws, aren't they, Richard? So, why doesn't your church practice these? Answer: for the simple reason it cannot make money observing these commandments.

In case you forgot, Jesus fulfilled all of the OT commands and practices of the LoM. They were the shadow but HE is the Substance. Which is more nourishing? The shadows cast by food, or the actual food itself?

 

[Bonnie]

Well you're looking in all the wrong places for sure....part of my calling is to take care of the sick and otherwise afflicted... I work with the Bishop and you would never for a minute appreciate the poor and afflicted are receiving help from the Stake and the wards.

Sure I know they receive help. But where do the funds come from that help these people? From tithes? From the $150 billion in profits your church is sitting on, collecting interest in various investments?

Yada, yada and boring.

Translation: I don't want to deal with what you wrote, so I will just say it is "boring."

Thanks for demonstrating what passes for "apologetics" in Mormonism....don't like the subject being discussed? Don't like being shown the truth about Smith and the LDS church and its history and practices? Just claim "BORING" so as not to have to deal with what was shown.

 

[organgrinder]

Chuckle, well we have 150 billion dollars as we speak in God's storehouse... seems tithing has its blessings... and who is benefiting, all members of Christ Church benefit in many different ways... love to teach you more but I feel you're to locked into the NT and have thrown the OT under the buss... I was right, now days the churches teach mostly the NT and are called NT Churches... hmm.

It is obvious you don't take the entirety of scripture as a whole. This is why you are so unlearned in God's ways and designs.