Verses that disprove the trinity.

[johnny guitar]

You have a hard time paying attention to what someone else is saying in their response don't you? It is either that or you are just being deceptive and twisting what they say, for I never said that John 1:1 actually goes along with the oneness theology but only that it might look that way until what John states is examined more closely.

You need to get this straight right from Jesus' own words in that 10th verse, he wasn't speaking for himself but for the Father who was dwelling within him and revealing himself through the works that they saw in Jesus.

In other words when Jesus said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me" it was the words of the Father answering Philip and not Jesus, and the point was that the disciples were already seeing the Father as revealed through Jesus, because the Father was in Jesus manifesting himself through Jesus.

Jesus was God's mouth piece and Jesus himself told us us this more than three different times in the gospels also.

Therefore, all of what you stated above in the bolded red is nothing more than a bunch of worthless trinity bias carnal human reasoning, for nothing of the sort could ever be contrived from what Jesus actually said in that text.

He who has seen Jesus has SEEN The Father.
When Jesus speaks, it is Jesus speaking and NO ONE else.
Your false Jesus is nothing more than a ventriloquist's puppet.
Staggering disrespect to The ONE and ONLY Lord.

 

[johnny guitar]

Mediator means a go-between. God lives in us by Christ. He comes between us and God. He is the Mediator between us and God. There's no "third person" / a second go-between/mediator involved.



"The third person of the trinity" DOES NOT KNOW the Father. NOR does it reveal Him. NOR has it been entrusted with anything by the Father.

Yes, Jesus was refuting trinitarianism in Matt 11:27.

Deal with it.



Evasion of 2 Cor 3:17 which calls Christ the Spirit.

Evasion of 1 Jn 2:1 which calls Christ the Advocate.

Evasion of John 14:18 which calls Christ the Comforter.

No trinity.

Deal with it.

In John 14 ONLY The Holy Spirit is referred to as The Comforter.
Deal with it.

 

[Photine]

In John 14 ONLY The Holy Spirit is referred to as The Comforter.
Deal with it.

Who's the Comforter in this verse?

John 14:18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

 

[johnny guitar]

Who's the Comforter in this verse?

John 14:18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

NO Comforter in this verse, ONLY Jesus Christ The Son of God.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Interesting, it's not a convincing argument for Oneness through. All you're saying is that these passages correlate with Oneness theology. The problem is they also correlate with Trinitarianism. "Jesus answered him saying "have I been so long with you and still you don't know me, for he who has seen me has seen the Father also". In this statement, Jesus is lamenting that Philippe didn't see Jesus as God walking the earth yet. After all, If Philippe saw Jesus as the true God, then he would also be seeing the first person of the Trinity too given that they are the same God. I tend to not use Philippians 2 in my debates with Oneness because we both agree that in form God means Jesus is God. But, how do you deal with the phrase "to be equal with God:" in v6? Because equality requires two who are equal. And, you only have one, or one with two perspectives. Either way, there is no "equal with God:" in Oneness.

You have a hard time paying attention to what someone else is saying in their response don't you? It is either that or you are just being deceptive and twisting what they say, for I never said that John 1:1 actually goes along with the oneness theology but only that it might look that way until what John states is examined more closely.

You need to get this straight right from Jesus' own words in that 10th verse, he wasn't speaking for himself but for the Father who was dwelling within him and revealing himself through the works that they saw in Jesus.

And how is that different from what I said? Oh yeah, it isn't.

In other words when Jesus said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me" it was the words of the Father answering Philip and not Jesus, and the point was that the disciples were already seeing the Father as revealed through Jesus, because the Father was in Jesus manifesting himself through Jesus.

No, it was Jesus' words to Phillip, not the Father's words. As you just said, "Jesus said..." Of course, the point was that the disciples were already seeing the Father as revealed through Jesus. Again, how is this an argument against Trinitarianism?

Jesus was God's mouth piece and Jesus himself told us us this more than three different times in the gospels also.

Therefore, all of what you stated above in the bolded red is nothing more than a bunch of worthless trinity bias carnal human reasoning, for nothing of the sort could ever be contrived from what Jesus actually said in that text.

The fact that Phil. 2:6 says "equal with God:" is "nothing more than a bunch of worthless trinity bias carnal human reasoning." Look at how desperate you are. You are willing to reject Scripture by calling it "carnal human reasoning."

I think we have run our course long enough with this, for both of us have expressed what we believe and don't believe and why and therefore we are only going around in circles with the same arguments and I don't see the point in wasting any more time with it.

Romans 2:9.

Interesting response given how much argumentation you refuse to interact with. You could at least respond to my questions:

• I'm not to trust in what the apostles wrote? I'm only suppose to trust in your proclamation justified by how much more diligent you've been in your studies as opposed to mine?
• Interesting, I make an appeal to common knowledge that takes two seconds for you to google, and somehow that shows I'm unable to prove something? I googled Aristotle and morphe and this is the first thing that pops up:
  • ... A thing’s form is its definition or essence...
    Form vs Matter from Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
• If Jesus, being God, can humbly die on the cross for our sins, can we not humble ourselves as to serve him?

God Bless

 

[Photine]

NO Comforter in this verse

John 14:18
"I will not leave you comfortless"

 

[Yahweh will increase]

And how is that different from what I said? Oh yeah, it isn't.



No, it was Jesus' words to Phillip, not the Father's words. As you just said, "Jesus said..." Of course, the point was that the disciples were already seeing the Father as revealed through Jesus. Again, how is this an argument against Trinitarianism?

Wow are you ever blind, it was Jesus speaking but it was the Father's words and Jesus actually said this in that 10th verse and he also says it in John 12 below as well and he also says that when they saw him they were not seeing him but rather the Father which was within him and just like he is saying in John 14 as well.

John 12:
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

The fact that Phil. 2:6 says "equal with God:" is "nothing more than a bunch of worthless trinity bias carnal human reasoning." Look at how desperate you are. You are willing to reject Scripture by calling it "carnal human reasoning."

Sorry, but if Paul was saying that Jesus was God, then why would he even use the word "isa" = "equal" at all?

For one being equal to another doesn't even mean that the one is the self same being as the other who he is equal unto but only equal in some way and beside this, Paul said that Jesus did not think to be God's equal anyhow.

Our constitution says all men are created equal, but that doesn't mean that they are all the same single being and we can say that the wife is equal unto her husband, but she isn't her husband is she?

Notice also, that the word "Father" is not used by Paul in Philippians 2:6 but rather the word God, so we are not talking about one person of your trinity being equal unto another but the fact that Jesus took no thought of a seizure to be God's equal, God's equal and again it is the word God and not the word Father.

Interesting response given how much argumentation you refuse to interact with. You could at least respond to my questions:

• I'm not to trust in what the apostles wrote? I'm only suppose to trust in your proclamation justified by how much more diligent you've been in your studies as opposed to mine?
• Interesting, I make an appeal to common knowledge that takes two seconds for you to google, and somehow that shows I'm unable to prove something? I googled Aristotle and morphe and this is the first thing that pops up:
  • ... A thing’s form is its definition or essence...
    Form vs Matter from Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
• If Jesus, being God, can humbly die on the cross for our sins, can we not humble ourselves as to serve him?

God Bless

Sorry but I am not going to even involve myself in the same worthless human reasoning that you use when approaching the scriptures so being that is what you are looking for from me, you best find yourself another sucker, because I am not your man.

By the way, you aren't even trusting in what Jesus actually said or what the apostles wrote in the first place and that is why you are in the mess that you are with your understanding of the scriptures.

At any rate, I simply don't want to waste anymore time with you on this, for I have been flogging a dead horse with you here for long enough.


Romans 2:9

 

[johnny guitar]

Wow are you ever blind, it was Jesus speaking but it was the Father's words and Jesus actually said this in that 10th verse and he also says it in John 12 below as well and he also says that when they saw him they were not seeing him but rather the Father which was within him and just like he is saying in John 14 as well.

John 12:
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”


Sorry, but if Paul was saying that Jesus was God, then why would he even use the word "isa" = "equal" at all?

For one being equal to another doesn't even mean that the one is the self same being as the other who he is equal unto but only equal in some way and beside this, Paul said that Jesus did not think to be God's equal anyhow.

Our constitution says all men are created equal, but that doesn't mean that they are all the same single being and we can say that the wife is equal unto her husband, but she isn't her husband is she?

Notice also, that the word "Father" is not used by Paul in Philippians 2:6 but rather the word God, so we are not talking about one person of your trinity being equal unto another but the fact that Jesus took no thought of a seizure to be God's equal, God's equal and again it is the word God and not the word Father.


Sorry but I am not going to even involve myself in the same worthless human reasoning that you use when approaching the scriptures so being that is what you are looking for from me, you best find yourself another sucker, because I am not your man.

By the way, you aren't even trusting in what Jesus actually said or what the apostles wrote in the first place and that is why you are in the mess that you are with your understanding of the scriptures.

At any rate, I simply don't want to waste anymore time with you on this, for I have been flogging a dead horse with you here for long enough.


Romans 2:9

Jesus thought EQUALITY with God NOT something to hold onto, cling to.
Case closed.

 

[Photine]

Wow are you ever blind, it was Jesus speaking but it was the Father's words and Jesus actually said this in that 10th verse and he also says it in John 12 below as well and he also says that when they saw him they were not seeing him but rather the Father which was within him and just like he is saying in John 14 as well.

John 12:
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”


Sorry, but if Paul was saying that Jesus was God, then why would he even use the word "isa" = "equal" at all?

For one being equal to another doesn't even mean that the one is the self same being as the other who he is equal unto but only equal in some way and beside this, Paul said that Jesus did not think to be God's equal anyhow.

Our constitution says all men are created equal, but that doesn't mean that they are all the same single being and we can say that the wife is equal unto her husband, but she isn't her husband is she?

Notice also, that the word "Father" is not used by Paul in Philippians 2:6 but rather the word God, so we are not talking about one person of your trinity being equal unto another but the fact that Jesus took no thought of a seizure to be God's equal, God's equal and again it is the word God and not the word Father.


Sorry but I am not going to even involve myself in the same worthless human reasoning that you use when approaching the scriptures so being that is what you are looking for from me, you best find yourself another sucker, because I am not your man.

By the way, you aren't even trusting in what Jesus actually said or what the apostles wrote in the first place and that is why you are in the mess that you are with your understanding of the scriptures.

At any rate, I simply don't want to waste anymore time with you on this, for I have been flogging a dead horse with you here for long enough.


Romans 2:9

You deny Scripture. Unitarians deny Scripture, trinitarians water it down.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Interesting take given that being a Mediator is not indwelling someone. Maybe, you need to think through the specifics of this argument more.

Mediator means a go-between. God lives in us by Christ. He comes between us and God. He is the Mediator between us and God. There's no "third person" / a second go-between/mediator involved.

Christ is our mediator, a specific title for a specific roll, being that he is both God and man. How does this negate another person indwelling us? The Holy Spirit indwells us based upon the mediator-ship of the Son. The Holy Spirit indwelling us doesn't make the Holy Spirit a mediator.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Is the point of this passage to teach binitarianism? Or is the point to emphasize Jesus' connection to the Father as to motivate people to come to him? After all, this section ends with "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." When teaching things to the young, you leave out the minutia of specifics as to make a point. Did Jesus' audience in Matthew 11 think of the Holy Spirit as a distinct person? Would it help Jesus' mission in Matthew 11 to go into a long diatribe about how there were actually two people who are God with Jesus and that each know each other equally? His audience doesn't even know Jesus is God yet. His point was to emphasize Jesus' connection to the Father as to motivate people to come to him, and he used their limited knowledge of the divine to express this reality. Jesus tells them that he is closer every person they know of who is God than anyone else they know. That's true and the point of this passage.

"The third person of the trinity" DOES NOT KNOW the Father. NOR does it reveal Him. NOR has it been entrusted with anything by the Father.

The text does not say that. You are drawing implications about topics that are not under discussion in this passage as to ignore other passages that emphatically teach the opposite of your position on those topics. Matthew 11 isn't talking about the Holy Spirit. Therefore, you can not imply anything about the HS from Matthew 11.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Christ isn't the Spirit as John 14:26 points out. So, yes Trinity.

Evasion of 2 Cor 3:17 which calls Christ the Spirit.
Evasion of 1 Jn 2:1 which calls Christ the Advocate.
Evasion of John 14:18 which calls Christ the Comforter.
No trinity.
Deal with it.

Two things:
1. Quoting other verses don't refute what John 14:26 teaches. Deal with John 14:26 first.
2. I haven't evaded anything. These verses you quote have already be dealt with. But given that I don't expect you to find the explanation of these passages, I'll repeat myself below.

"2 Cor 3:17 which calls Christ the Spirit." And? Christ is God, and God is Spirit. Therefore, there is no reason to take from this that the 2nd person of the Trinity is the 3rd person of the Trinity.
"1 Jn 2:1 which calls Christ the Advocate" and "John 14:18 which calls Christ the Comforter." Of course Jesus is our Comforter/Advocate (same word in Greek) as these verses teach. However, John 14:16 calls the Spirit "another Comforter". Therefore, the Holy Spirit is a different comforter from Jesus.

How about you deal with the fact that Jesus says ANOTHER?

God Bless

 

[Photine]

The Holy Spirit indwelling us doesn't make the Holy Spirit a mediator.[/COLOR]

I never said "indwelling someone makes them a mediator" I said being a go-between makes them one.

You believe "the third person" goes between us and Christ and God, possibly between Christ and God, too.

Thus, you preach a second mediator.

The text does not say that. You are drawing implications about topics that are not under discussion in this passage as to ignore other passages that emphatically teach the opposite of your position on those topics. Matthew 11 isn't talking about the Holy Spirit. Therefore, you can not imply anything about the HS from Matthew 11.

Does "the third person of the trinity" know the Father? Yes or no.

"2 Cor 3:17 which calls Christ the Spirit." And?

Christ is the Spirit? Wow, He must be The Holy Spirit.

Of course Jesus is our Comforter/Advocate (same word in Greek) as these verses teach.

Jesus is our Comforter and Advocate? Wow, He must be The Holy Spirit.

However, John 14:16 calls the Spirit "another Comforter". Therefore, the Holy Spirit is a different comforter from Jesus.

No, you're just making stuff up. "Another Comforter" means another comforter than the Father, obviously not another from Himself. He IS our Comforter with the Father, remember (1 Jn 2:1, John 14:18)? He IS The Spirit, remember (2 Cor 3:17)? There's only ONE Mediator between God and man, REMEMBER (1 Tim 2:5)? NO ONE knows the Father except the Son, REMEMBER (Matt 11:27)?

 

[johnny guitar]

I never said "indwelling someone makes them a mediator" I said being a go-between makes them one.

You believe "the third person" goes between us and Christ and God, possibly between Christ and God, too.

Thus, you preach a second mediator.



Does "the third person of the trinity" know the Father? Yes or no.



Christ is the Spirit? Wow, He must be The Holy Spirit.



Jesus is our Comforter and Advocate? Wow, He must be The Holy Spirit.



No, you're just making stuff up. "Another Comforter" means another comforter than the Father, obviously not another from Himself. He IS our Comforter with the Father, remember (1 Jn 2:1, John 14:18)? He IS The Spirit, remember (2 Cor 3:17)? There's only ONE Mediator between God and man, REMEMBER (1 Tim 2:5)? NO ONE knows the Father except the Son, REMEMBER (Matt 11:27)?

Another Comforter from The Son.

 

[Photine]

Another Comforter from The Son.

It doesn't say that.

 

[johnny guitar]

It doesn't say that.

He says He will send ANOTHER Comforter distinct from Himself. He often refers to The Holy Spirit.
Case closed.

 

[Photine]

He says He will send ANOTHER Comforter distinct from Himself.

Again, that's not what it says.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
And how is that different from what I said? Oh yeah, it isn't.
No, it was Jesus' words to Phillip, not the Father's words. As you just said, "Jesus said..." Of course, the point was that the disciples were already seeing the Father as revealed through Jesus. Again, how is this an argument against Trinitarianism?

Wow are you ever blind, it was Jesus speaking but it was the Father's words and Jesus actually said this in that 10th verse and he also says it in John 12 below as well and he also says that when they saw him they were not seeing him but rather the Father which was within him and just like he is saying in John 14 as well.

John 12:
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

You know, run on sentences are very hard to parse. And how is that different from what I said? Oh yeah, it isn't. We both agree people see the Father by looking at the Son. We both agree Jesus doesn't speak on his own, but the Father who sent Jesus commanded Jesus to say what he said. None of this means it was the Father's words and not Jesus's words.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The fact that Phil. 2:6 says "equal with God:" is "nothing more than a bunch of worthless trinity bias carnal human reasoning." Look at how desperate you are. You are willing to reject Scripture by calling it "carnal human reasoning."

Sorry, but if Paul was saying that Jesus was God, then why would he even use the word "isa" = "equal" at all?

Because, Jesus and God the Father are equal, and that makes Jesus God too.

For one being equal to another doesn't even mean that the one is the self same being as the other who he is equal unto but only equal in some way and beside this, Paul said that Jesus did not think to be God's equal anyhow.

The text does not say "Jesus did not think to be God's equal anyhow." It says either "thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" or "did not count equality with God a thing to be held onto." Is it fun retranslating Scripture to justify your opinion?

Our constitution says all men are created equal, but that doesn't mean that they are all the same single being and we can say that the wife is equal unto her husband, but she isn't her husband is she?

True, and utterly irrelevant because man is not God. How can one be equal to the one, true, simple, necessary, omnipresent God without also being the one, true, simple, necessary, omnipresent God? Analogies based upon our human experience cannot always be applied to God.

Notice also, that the word "Father" is not used by Paul in Philippians 2:6 but rather the word God, so we are not talking about one person of your trinity being equal unto another but the fact that Jesus took no thought of a seizure to be God's equal, God's equal and again it is the word God and not the word Father.

And according to you, Father and God are interchangeable, and according to me, Father and God are commonly interchangeable. So, how can you pretend that it uses God and not Father is meaningful?

"Jesus took no thought of a seizure to be God's equal" Is it fun retranslating Scripture to justify your opinion?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Interesting response given how much argumentation you refuse to interact with. You could at least respond to my questions:

• I'm not to trust in what the apostles wrote? I'm only suppose to trust in your proclamation justified by how much more diligent you've been in your studies as opposed to mine?
• Interesting, I make an appeal to common knowledge that takes two seconds for you to google, and somehow that shows I'm unable to prove something? I googled Aristotle and morphe and this is the first thing that pops up:
  • ... A thing’s form is its definition or essence...
    Form vs Matter from Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
• If Jesus, being God, can humbly die on the cross for our sins, can we not humble ourselves as to serve him

Sorry but I am not going to even involve myself in the same worthless human reasoning that you use when approaching the scriptures so being that is what you are looking for from me, you best find yourself another sucker, because I am not your man.

I.e., You are refusing to deal with the fact that you told me to reject what the apostles wrote to trust in your proclamation justified by how much more diligent you've been in your studies as opposed to mine. I trust in what God wrote, not in your human reasoning on how diligently you trusted in God.

By the way, you aren't even trusting in what Jesus actually said or what the apostles wrote in the first place and that is why you are in the mess that you are with your understanding of the scriptures.

Why would I believe this is true? You are literally rewriting Philippians 2:6 to match your theology while being admittedly ignorant of the Greek. According to your own words, you are not trusting in what Jesus actually said or what the apostles wrote. Yet, you still accuse me of the same with nothing justifying said accusation.

Did it hurt to realize that men like Aristotle used μορφῇ the way I am? "A thing’s form is its definition or essence".
Did it hurt realizing that "If Jesus, being God, can humbly die on the cross for our sins, can we not humble ourselves as to serve him?" makes sense of the context of v5?

God Bless

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The Holy Spirit indwelling us doesn't make the Holy Spirit a mediator.

I never said "indwelling someone makes them a mediator" I said being a go-between makes them one.
You believe "the third person" goes between us and Christ and God, possibly between Christ and God, too.
Thus, you preach a second mediator.

No, I do not believe the third person goes between us and Christ and God. I believe the third person indwells us to empower us to live for God. And, a mediator is more than a go-between.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The text does not say that. You are drawing implications about topics that are not under discussion in this passage as to ignore other passages that emphatically teach the opposite of your position on those topics. Matthew 11 isn't talking about the Holy Spirit. Therefore, you can not imply anything about the HS from Matthew 11.

Does "the third person of the trinity" know the Father? Yes or no.

You are asking questions about topics that are not under discussion in this passage. Stop abusing Scripture.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
"2 Cor 3:17 which calls Christ the Spirit." And?

Christ is the Spirit? Wow, He must be The Holy Spirit.

Yes, Christ is God, and God is Spirit. Therefore, there is no reason to take from this that the 2nd person of the Trinity is the 3rd person of the Trinity.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Of course Jesus is our Comforter/Advocate (same word in Greek) as these verses teach.

Jesus is our Comforter and Advocate? Wow, He must be The Holy Spirit.

Not when John 14:16 says the Holy Spirit is "another Comforter/Advocate".

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
However, John 14:16 calls the Spirit "another Comforter". Therefore, the Holy Spirit is a different comforter from Jesus.

No, you're just making stuff up. "Another Comforter" means another comforter than the Father, obviously not another from Himself. He IS our Comforter with the Father, remember (1 Jn 2:1, John 14:18)? He IS The Spirit, remember (2 Cor 3:17)? There's only ONE Mediator between God and man, REMEMBER (1 Tim 2:5)? NO ONE knows the Father except the Son, REMEMBER (Matt 11:27)?

Dude, read the text: "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:16-17. Are you seriously implying that the world who crucified Jesus Christ didn't see Jesus Christ? Why is Jesus using 3rd persons pronouns to talk about himself like this? Where is the Father ever depicted as being our Comforter/Advocate? The Father is our Judge and King, not our advocate. Remember, 1 Jn 2:1, John 14:18, and 2 Corinthians 3:17 don't prove what you think they prove. While John 14:16-17, 26 emphatically teach the Holy Spirit is a distinct person from the Father and the Son.

God Bless

 

[Photine]

No, I do not believe the third person goes between us and Christ and God. I believe the third person indwells us to empower us to live for God. And, a mediator is more than a go-between.

Well that's nice, but you still believe in a third person who goes between you and Jesus, and God. A second mediator. You merely have trouble owning up to it and dealing with it.

You are asking questions about topics that are not under discussion in this passage. Stop abusing Scripture.

Ooof.. that wasn't a yes or no response.

I'll ask again.

Does "the third person of the trinity" KNOW the Father? YES/NO.

Yes, Christ is God, and God is Spirit. Therefore, there is no reason to take from this that the 2nd person of the Trinity is the 3rd person of the Trinity.

2 Cor 3:17 does not merely say "Christ is Spirit", it says "CHRIST IS THE SPIRIT".

Wow, isn't THE SPIRIT THE HOLY SPIRIT? Wow, Christ is THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Not when John 14:16 says the Holy Spirit is "another Comforter/Advocate".

John 14:16 is talking about Jesus. Read John 14:18,20..

Dude, read the text: "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."

Dude keep reading:

John 14:18-20
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Why is Jesus using 3rd persons pronouns to talk about himself like this?

Because He spoke in VEILED LANGUAGE.

John 16:25
“I have told you these things in figurative language (veiled language, proverbs); the hour is now coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.

Jesus is famous for speaking about Himself in third person. It doesn't mean there IS a third person.

Where is the Father ever depicted as being our Comforter/Advocate?

Isaiah 51:12
“I, even I, am He who comforts you.
Who are you that you should be afraid
Of a man who will die,
And of the son of a man who will be made like grass?

Hosea 2:14
Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.

Isaiah 40:1
Comfort, comfort my people, says your God.

 

[Photine]

John 14:16-17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

John 1:11
He came to the world that was his own. And his own people did not accept him.

John 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalm 104:30
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.

 

[johnny guitar]

Well that's nice, but you still believe in a third person who goes between you and Jesus, and God. A second mediator. You merely have trouble owning up to it and dealing with it.



Ooof.. that wasn't a yes or no response.

I'll ask again.

Does "the third person of the trinity" KNOW the Father? YES/NO.

2 Cor 3:17 does not merely say "Christ is Spirit", it says "CHRIST IS THE SPIRIT".

Wow, isn't THE SPIRIT THE HOLY SPIRIT? Wow, Christ is THE HOLY SPIRIT.

John 14:16 is talking about Jesus. Read John 14:18,20..



Dude keep reading:

John 14:18-20
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.



Because He spoke in VEILED LANGUAGE.

John 16:25
“I have told you these things in figurative language (veiled language, proverbs); the hour is now coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.

Jesus is famous for speaking about Himself in third person. It doesn't mean there IS a third person.



Isaiah 51:12
“I, even I, am He who comforts you.
Who are you that you should be afraid
Of a man who will die,
And of the son of a man who will be made like grass?

Hosea 2:14
Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.

Isaiah 40:1
Comfort, comfort my people, says your God.

Jesus NEVER identifies Himself as The Holy Spirit.
Your posts are imagination run amok.