pilgrim
Well-known member
To ask Protestants "why" is to ride the never-ending merry-go-round of non-answers.
Was Jesus death not sufficient?
- Thread starter dingoling.
- Start date
Theo1689
Well-known member
Three problems:
1) God doesn't always answer the "why" questions. So why do you expect us to answer questions which God hasn't?
2) Questions are not valid arguments.
3) Last I checked, this is not the "Protestantism" forum, it is the "Roman Catholicism" forum. But you can't defend Romanism, all you can do is try to attack the beliefs of your critics, which is what ALL the cults do.
pilgrim
Well-known member
I see that you did not disagree with my post.
1. That's why there is theology.
2. Questions encourage others to come to the answer themselves.
3. I can't defend Catholicism (preferred term) to your liking because you appear dead set against it. It takes faith to believe and not everyone has the gift of faith.
This op does not align with what you have posted in other threads. You seem to imply everything was completed at the last supper even the sacrifice.
You also in other posts state we need to suffer like Jesus.
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One of the 3000 verses you have learnt. Do you still remember it? If you did then you would know the answer.
It is clear why:
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all....
Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
You have always shown you have no understanding of the scriptures, as you think this happened at the LS and it clearly didn't. You also show you do not understand the sin offering.
And you say you read and memorised Is 53. You clearly did not understand it.
You have told us you are a bible scholar so many times. Yet you show no understanding of the sin offering. Do you believe Jesus did not have to suffer?
That is just an excuse for being unable to answer the question.
dingoling.
Well-known member
We are trying to understand why Jesus' suffering was necessary for our salvation. If Jesus had lived a long life and died of "natural causes" and have really not suffered much, would this death have sufficed for our salvation?
why did the Son come to earth as a human?
You do not know the answer. If that was the case then you are really saying God is a sadist because He had Jesus suffer for no reason at all. Jesus only came to earth for one reason alone and it was not the LS dinner, as you think.
1Thess521
Well-known member
the answer to your question is "no"
and I will add this: NOTHING;, absolutely NOTHING a few Romans did to Jesus made propitiation on our behalf.
dingoling.
Well-known member
What made propitiation?
1Thess521
Well-known member
The answer to you question--> the sufferings Christ endured from GOD is what made propitiation; not from the Romans:
As an act of love: Christ the willing accepted the sufferings meant for God's people.
In the first centuries of the early church, thousands of Christians died on crosses.
It is said that Nero crucified them upside down, covered them with tar, and set them aflame to provide streetlights for the city of Rome. Throughout the ages since then, a countless stream of Christians have been led off to the most unspeakable tortures, and yet it is the testimony of friend and foe alike that many of them went to their death with great boldness even singing hymns.
Thousands of Christians crucified upside down, covered with tar, and set aflame and singing hymns!
Are we to believe that the followers of the Messiah met such cruel physical death with boldness and joy;
while the Messiah Himself, Captain of their Salvation , the King of Kings, the Lord of the Armies in heaven, cowered in a garden, fearing the same torture, sweating blood , and needed to be comforted by an angel?
Did the Christ fear whips and thorns, crosses and spears, or was something else going on?
It is sometimes thought and even preached that the Father looked down from heaven and witnessed the suffering that was heaped upon His Son by the hands of men, and that He counted such affliction as payment for our sins.
This is heresy of the worst kind. Christ satisfied divine justice not by merely enduring the affliction of men, but by enduring the wrath of God.
It takes more than crosses, nails, crowns of thorns, and lances to pay for sin.
The believer is saved, not simply because of what men did to Christ on the Cross, but because of what God did to Him – He crushed Him under the full force of His wrath against us!
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SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
It puzzles me for they claim to be born again and yet they don,t understand the scriptures. I guess they are in the process of the renewing of their mind.
Carbon
Super Member
The new mind comes with the new birth.
they falsely claim to be born again because the rcc falsely teaches them that.
the same with their false beliefs about what scripture says.
Yet you offer nothing at all about how you understand it. Obviously you consider it was not necessary, He just needed to turn into a piece of bread and wine and hail all is well with the world.
You claim you read Is 53 and yet you do not understand why He needed the cross. Boy RC teachings have become worse, if you asked that question of the nuns ruler across the knuckles. They certainly knew why Jesus needed to suffer.
I am shocked at how poor RC teachings have become.
Carbon
Super Member
Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
It would be nice to hear their understanding of it.