What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

[dberrie2020]

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation,

I agree. The works are the basis of receiving God's grace unto life. I don't find it anywhere in the Bible where God trades eternal life for our obedience--it's His grace which He extends to us--which is the basis for anyone receiving eternal life.

That grace goes to them which obey God--and that's the elephant left sitting in the room, whenever a Christian claims we are saved by God's grace(which I believe is true)--IE--who does God extend His grace unto life to?

but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not.

If the Biblical witness is true--it determines who is received unto the resurrection of life or damnation:

John 5:28-29--King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation.

I agree.

About those fruits:

Matthew 7:19---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works,

For the record--I have never claimed one is saved by works. Again--the scriptures testify one is saved by God's grace--and that grace goes to them which obey God.

then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1, but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

That reminds me of this story:

John: Hey Ted--my house is for sale now.
Ted: Oh yeah--how much?
John: 100k--but the roof needs fixing
Ted: Hey, you said you had a house for sale, what has that got to do with a roof?

As the Biblical witness testifies to--a faith without works is a faith which is dead. I don't believe anyone is going to be saved through a dead faith.

 

[dberrie2020]

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the 'sense' in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

A couple of points here:

1) Abraham was extended the promises here--3 chapters prior to Genesis15:

Genesis 12:1-4---King James Version
1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

2) The Lord made this observation about Abraham, and the reason for His grace unto him--and all nations:

Genesis 26:4-5--King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

A faith with works:

James 2:18-26---King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Where does it state works are excluded there? Quite to the contrary.

Dan--faith alone theology excludes all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ in obtaining eternal life. I find that nowhere in James 2.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

That seems to connect works and righteousness.

1 John 3:7---King James Version
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

The problem with that is--the faith alone exclude all works in obtaining eternal life. It is a faith without works one is saved through--in faith alone theology. IOW--in faith alone theology--one is saved through a "dead faith".

 

[dberrie2020]

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

All are Redeemed(bought back) from the Fall through the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all men no longer carry the condemnation which befell all men due to the Fall, because to the Atonement. Free gift to all men. Unconditional.

The forgiveness of our personal sins is another matter:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again--that defies faith alone theology, IMO.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

The faith that justifies, in faith alone theology--is alone. Was it genuine faith then? Or does it take genuine faith to be saved?

As I already told you multiple times. Good works are the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

Considering good works are necessary to be accepted of God--before and after salvation--then I would not disagree that the faithful bring forth fruits after salvation. They also bring forth fruits unto eternal life:

Romans 6:22---King James Version
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

It's not one or the other, but both.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

How does that supersede the testimony of Jesus concerning those deeds?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

It is completely true. The Bible does clearly state in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..). Yet you insist on "adding" works to salvation by faith.

It's not salvation by faith--but salvation by grace through faith.

And it isn't a dead faith which is referenced:

Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

"Do His commandments" does not earn us eternal life,

I agree. Then why do you call out "works salvationist" whenever scriptures are posted which links our works with His grace?

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

but it is evidence that we are born of God and have been granted eternal life. In 1 John 2:3-4, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That only links keeping the commandments with eternal life.

John 17:3---King James Version
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I already covered Hebrews 5:9 with you multiple times, yet you insist on twisting this verse to support salvation by works.

In faith alone theology--Hebrews5:9 would be considered "salvation by works"--as would a goodly portion of the Biblical NT.

Attempting to fit faith alone theology into the Biblical NT--- is trying to fit a bowling ball in a marble sack--it just ain't gonna fit.

Judged according to our works does not mean we are saved by works,

It means God extends what does save, IE--His grace--to them which do His works.(faith in Jesus Christ)

as I already explained to you numerous times, but what I explained just continues to go right over your head. Now in regards to works at the judgment seat of Christ, believers will receive rewards and loss of rewards (but not salvation) based on their works.

I agree--and if the testimony of Jesus is true--those rewards are either life or damnation:

John 5:28-29--King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Corinthians 3:13 - each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (as one escaping through the flames)

All will be saved unto immortality through the Resurrection, as all will be resurrected--but Paul was not referring to the wicked being saved--as he testifies to:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

We could continue this discussion for months, but will not come to an agreement and I feel that I am just wasting my time beating a dead horse. The apostle clearly states that the gospel is hid to those who don't believe (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) which explains a lot. I just hope that something I shared with you has at least planted a seed that one day will be watered and lead you to believe the gospel.

You choose whatever you will. I won't be offended.

John 14:21-24--King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

[Bocco]

Jesus didn't play anyone--and what Jesus gave him that he wasn't willing to do was in ADDITION of obeying the commandments.

Jesus used the proverbs 26:4,5 way to answer the man.
Pro 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.

Proverbs 26:5 tells us that under another set of circumstances we should answer the silly or immature person “according to his folly,” responding to his line of reasoning. The answer we give should expose the weakness of his thinking. His thinking needs to be challenged, for the person’s sake, “lest he be wise in his own eyes.”

The rich young rulers folly was thinking he could earn salvation. Jesus answered him according to his folly. He wanted to do something to earn eternal life. Jesus showed him the foolishness of his view that he could earn salvation by telling him to do something Jesus knew the man was not willing to do.

And selling everything he had and giving it to the poor and following Jesus is not in ADDITION to the commandments. It is simply the ultimate fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Being rich while your neighbors are poor is not loving your neighbor.

 

[bluedog1us]

Grace. God’s enabling power that is provided to all humans through the work of Jesus and His Atonement. Because of this, everyone receives an inheritance to a Kingdom of Glory.

As twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball said, “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 206. See also The Book of Mormon Student Manual Religion 121 and 122, 1989, p. 36). Apostle Bruce R. McConkie explained, “The blood of Christ was shed as a free gift of wondrous grace, but the Saints are cleansed by the blood after they keep the commandments” (Sermons and Writings of Bruce R. McConkie, p. 77).

For a look at 2 Nephi 25:23, which says a person is “saved by grace after all you can do,” see here.

Grace Definition – Mormonism Research Ministry

www.mrm.org

Are you the same CharismaticLady from Christian Forums and the Christianity Board?

Is that the same gospel the apostles taught?

 

[MMDAN]

Beware, folks. Mormon grace has to be merited.

Joseph Smith rewrote Ephesians 2 in the Book of Mormon. .He left out "not of works" and added "after all we can do."

“For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).

"There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated." (Doctrine and Covenants 130:20-21)

Is that the same gospel the apostles taught?

The Mormon gospel and the gospel the Apostles taught is not the same gospel.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Mormon gospel and the gospel the Apostles taught is not the same gospel.

So Mormon's don't follow the gospel of Jesus Christ? The apostles were His apostles and taught what He taught.

Seeing as SIN is what separated us from God and why Jesus died for us, I like that Mormon's and Seventh-day Adventists both are adherers to the law and want to do righteousness. Neither teach the true gospel of Jesus, but it is better than some who treat grace as a license to sin. Jude 1:4. Now how God is going to handle law keepers without the Spirit, I can't say. But better than those who are a disgrace to grace.

What do Mormons think about the condition to be saved that we MUST be born again? I do know some SDAs who are born again as well as following the Ten Commandments, but it is not taught well. They must have qualified without knowing. I also know some other denominations who received the gifts of the Spirit at one time, but believe the false doctrine of grace being a license to sin.

 

[e v e 21]

The LDS believe in all the works of Christ to provide salvation to man--but they also believe it's by God's grace in which they are saved.

The question being--who does God extend that grace unto eternal life to?

Hebrews 5:9--King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

but no one wants to obey : (

 

[MMDAN]

So Mormon's don't follow the gospel of Jesus Christ? The apostles were His apostles and taught what He taught.

Seeing as SIN is what separated us from God and why Jesus died for us, I like that Mormon's and Seventh-day Adventists both are adherers to the law and want to do righteousness. Neither teach the true gospel of Jesus, but it is better than some who treat grace as a license to sin. Jude 1:4. Now how God is going to handle law keepers without the Spirit, I can't say. But better than those who are a disgrace to grace.

What do Mormons think about the condition to be saved that we MUST be born again? I do know some SDAs who are born again as well as following the Ten Commandments, but it is not taught well. They must have qualified without knowing. I also know some other denominations who received the gifts of the Spirit at one time, but believe the false doctrine of grace being a license to sin.

Mormon's teach a "different" gospel of works salvation. The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet Mormons teach we are saved by grace after all WE can DO. (2 Nephi 25:23)

The Gospel According to Mormonism

The Mormon has an impossible gospel that they cannot live up to, that cannot bring forgiveness, and that violates justification by faith.

carm.org

I've been in multiple discussions with SDA's over the years on various Christian forum sites and they teach a different gospel of "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." For them it's salvation by faith + obeying the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment).

The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Compare the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church (SDA) with the Holy Bible. Do they really have the truth?

nonsda.org

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[MMDAN]

but no one wants to obey : (

Sadly, many people confuse obeying a false religion with obeying Christ.

 

[e v e 21]

Sadly, many people confuse obeying a false religion with obeying Christ.

all modern christianity is in a mess…

 

[dberrie2020]

The rich young rulers folly was thinking he could earn salvation. Jesus answered him according to his folly. He wanted to do something to earn eternal life. Jesus showed him the foolishness of his view that he could earn salvation by telling him to do something Jesus knew the man was not willing to do.

I have heard that reasoning--but I don't believe Jesus was being deceptive. Jesus told the truth, as He always did--and it does not state anywhere the ruler was not willing to obey the ten commandments, quite to the contrary:

Matthew 19:16-21---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Where do we find the ruler was not willing to obey the commandments?

And selling everything he had and giving it to the poor and following Jesus is not in ADDITION to the commandments. It is simply the ultimate fulfillment of the law.

That still does not break the connection between keeping the commandments and eternal life.

Where do we find selling all one has--and giving it to the poor--as a commandment for all? One of the ten commandments?

Rom 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Being rich while your neighbors are poor is not loving your neighbor.

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[dberrie2020]

Is that the same gospel the apostles taught?

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The Apostle Jesus Christ taught the same:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[MMDAN]

Jesus used the proverbs 26:4,5 way to answer the man.
Pro 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.

Proverbs 26:5 tells us that under another set of circumstances we should answer the silly or immature person “according to his folly,” responding to his line of reasoning. The answer we give should expose the weakness of his thinking. His thinking needs to be challenged, for the person’s sake, “lest he be wise in his own eyes.”

The rich young rulers folly was thinking he could earn salvation. Jesus answered him according to his folly. He wanted to do something to earn eternal life. Jesus showed him the foolishness of his view that he could earn salvation by telling him to do something Jesus knew the man was not willing to do.

And selling everything he had and giving it to the poor and following Jesus is not in ADDITION to the commandments. It is simply the ultimate fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Being rich while your neighbors are poor is not loving your neighbor.

Jesus showed the rich young ruler how short he fell of keeping even the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37) The rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation.

The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. Now if keeping the commandments was the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - "keep the commandments and you will be saved," yet that's not what Paul said. Instead, Paul said, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household" (if they also believe).

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Nobody except Jesus Christ has flawlessly obeyed all of God's commandments. To "keep" Greek word "tereo") His commandments means to guard, observe, watch over His commandments, which only those who are born of God do. (1 John 2:3-4)

 

[dberrie2020]

Mormon's teach a "different" gospel of works salvation.

Would this be an example?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9)

So--when you use the term "faith"--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

yet Mormons teach we are saved by grace after all WE can DO. (2 Nephi 25:23)

How do you feel that differs from the Biblical testimony?

Matthew 10:22--King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

I've been in multiple discussions with SDA's over the years on various Christian forum sites and they teach a different gospel of "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." For them it's salvation by faith + obeying the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment).

For the LDS--it's salvation by God's grace--though a faith with works. The LDS do not teach one is saved through a dead faith--and neither does the Biblical text:

James 2:19-26---King James Version
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[dberrie2020]

Sadly, many people confuse obeying a false religion with obeying Christ.

The fact is--faith alone theology teaches one obtains eternal life, excluding all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--regardless of what religion there is.

That's a false hope, IMO:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[dberrie2020]

Jesus showed the rich young ruler how short he fell of keeping even the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37) The rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation.

How does any of that somehow annul what Jesus testified to?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jesus connected keeping the commandments with eternal life--period.

How does that differ from other scriptures?

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. Now if keeping the commandments was the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - "keep the commandments and you will be saved," yet that's not what Paul said. Instead, Paul said, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household" (if they also believe).

What do you feel about keeping the commandments--which isn't integral to belief in the Lord Jesus Christ?

So--were these believers?

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

So--is your reference to "faith" there--a reference to a faith with works--or a reference to a faith without works?

Nobody except Jesus Christ has flawlessly obeyed all of God's commandments.

How does that annul the connection between keeping the commandments and eternal life?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21-23---King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[MMDAN]

Would this be an example?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So--when you use the term "faith"--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

How do you feel that differs from the Biblical testimony?

Matthew 10:22--King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

For the LDS--it's salvation by God's grace--though a faith with works. The LDS do not teach one is saved through a dead faith--and neither does the Biblical text:

James 2:19-26---King James Version
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

For the LDS salvation is through faith (their version of faith) AND WORKS, which nullifies grace. (Romans 11:6) For genuine believers, salvation is by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) The LDS teach, for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all WE can DO (2 Nephi 25:23) In other words, do all you can or else the Lord will not be able to save you, which is salvation by works and not by faith in Christ. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:10) You don't understand the difference and there is a reason for that.

Until the blinders are removed, you will continue down the road of Mormon eisegesis and salvation by works.

 

[MMDAN]

The fact is--faith alone theology teaches one obtains eternal life, excluding all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--regardless of what religion there is.

That's a false hope, IMO:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

More eisegesis. Obeying the Mormon church is not obeying Him.

 

[MMDAN]

How does any of that somehow annul what Jesus testified to?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jesus connected keeping the commandments with eternal life--period.

How does that differ from other scriptures?

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.



What do you feel about keeping the commandments--which isn't integral to belief in the Lord Jesus Christ?

So--were these believers?

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



So--is your reference to "faith" there--a reference to a faith with works--or a reference to a faith without works?



How does that annul the connection between keeping the commandments and eternal life?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21-23---King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

More eisegesis that results in a "works based" false gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)