What Joseph Smith said:

[brotherofJared]

All churches probably want members.

As a business model, one could see how that's important. You might even find the churches who want members doing things like accepting other religions baptism, ordaining women to the priesthood, rejecting the nuclear family and stuff like that. As a business, they need to meet the demands of their members or they won't survive.

 

[brotherofJared]

Mormons think ALL blessings must be earned.

Yep. But we don't believe that we earned all of them. Some were earned by another individual for all. Doing kid yourself. All beyond are earned. But some blessings only God can earn.

 

[Bonnie]

Loaded Question.
The assertion of "con man" is an assumption built into the question.

Except Smith was. A very good con man, at that. Convinced his followers that polygamy was from God...that it was fine for him to marry 14-year old girls and other men's wives, while they were still married to their first husbands...he used blackmail to get some to marry him, claiming an angel with a sword would kill him if he did not. Imagine that....an angel forcing Smith to sin against God....

 

[Aaron32]

Except Smith was. A very good con man, at that. Convinced his followers that polygamy was from God...that it was fine for him to marry 14-year old girls and other men's wives, while they were still married to their first husbands...he used blackmail to get some to marry him, claiming an angel with a sword would kill him if he did not. Imagine that....an angel forcing Smith to sin against God....

And since when have I ever defended polygamy?
JS ended getting killed over this issue. We no longer practice polygamy. Please pick something relevant.

 

[Theo1689]

And since when have I ever defended polygamy?

So you admit that Mormonism is false, and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet?

JS ended getting killed over this issue.

You continue to demonstrate your ignorance of Mormonism.
Smith was killed while in custody for inciting a riot in association with the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper that didn't print very nice things about him.

While he had been charged with polygamy (among other charges) that particular tiral was postponed.

We no longer practice polygamy.

Your Mormon brethren would disagree.
They would argue that Mormons continue to practice serial polygamy, and in the afterlife they will continue to practice concurrent polygamy.

Please pick something relevant.

You are once again very confused.
This is not the "Aaron32" forum.
This is the Mormonism forum.
You can't simply deny the right to discuss Mormonism just because you PERSONALLY don't hold to the doctrine.

 

[Bonnie]

And since when have I ever defended polygamy?

I never said you did.

JS ended getting killed over this issue. We no longer practice polygamy. Please pick something relevant.

Sorry, but it is VERY relevant! Smith wasn't killed over polygamy, but over the destruction of the printing press. But your false prophet founder promoted it, saying it was from God. He married two 14 year old girls, and other men's wives! And some WERE for time as well as eternity! Where does your god command or permit polyandry in D and C 132?

 

[Aaron32]

I never said you did.

Then why are you bringing it up.

Sorry, but it is VERY relevant! Smith wasn't killed over polygamy, but over the destruction of the printing press. But your false prophet founder promoted it, saying it was from God. He married two 14 year old girls, and other men's wives! And some WERE for time as well as eternity! Where does your god command or permit polyandry in D and C 132?

Yes, and what was that printing press revealing about Joseph Smith? Polygamy. God removed him out of his place.
I personally believe D&C 124 was speaking to those that brought polygamy into the Church:

"And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord God.
And I will answer judgment, wrath, and indignation, wailing, and anguish, and gnashing of teeth upon their heads, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord your God." (D&C 124:50,52)

What happened? The fourth president of the Church declared:
"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."...
"The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have." (Official Declaration 1)

We don't belong to the Church of Joseph Smith, Bonnie. Members of our Church bear the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Theo1689]

Then why are you bringing it up.

Seriously?!
The reason she brought it up was as evidence that JS was a "con man".
Whether you defended polygamy or not, that made JS a "con man".
And even if you don't defend polygamy, many Mormons did, and in fact still do.

THAT is why she brought it up.
And so if you can't follow a simple discussion, then maybe posting at 4:00 am isn't the best idea in the world?

What happened? The fourth president of the Church declared:

Um, Aaron...
Why are you quoting teachings from (your words) "yesteryear", instead of relying on more modern writings?
Double standards much?

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."...
"The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage,

Um, Aaron... Weren't you the one that denied that "plural marriage" was a term used by Mormons, and was only used by critics (link) ?

I'll accept your apology now.

 

[Aaron32]

So you admit that Mormonism is false, and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet?

Can you read? No, I didn't say that.

You continue to demonstrate your ignorance of Mormonism.

Says the one of shallow understanding.

Smith was killed while in custody for inciting a riot in association with the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper that didn't print very nice things about him.

Right, and what were tnot "not so nice things"? Per Wikipedia: "The statement discusses the schism, attributed to "many items of doctrine, as now taught, some of which, however, are taught secretly, and denied openly" which they declare "heretical and damnable". They cite the practice of plural marriage, accusing Smith and other church leaders of using their ecclesiastical position to coerce recently arrived female converts into becoming Smith's "spiritual wi[ves]". They also cite the "false doctrine of many Gods"

While he had been charged with polygamy (among other charges) that particular tiral was postponed.

It doesn't matter. It locked him up, and he was killed while he was in jail.

Your Mormon brethren would disagree.
They would argue that Mormons continue to practice serial polygamy, and in the afterlife they will continue to practice concurrent polygamy.

Yeah, that's a weak justification.

You are once again very confused.
This is not the "Aaron32" forum.
This is the Mormonism forum.
You can't simply deny the right to discuss Mormonism just because you PERSONALLY don't hold to the doctrine.

I'm an individual. And I'm mormon. I absolutely have the right to refuse to discuss, (not have to defend) a practice that is currently discontinued, and that I don't believe in.

 

[Bonnie]

Then why are you bringing it up.

Yes, and what was that printing press revealing about Joseph Smith? Polygamy. God removed him out of his place.
I personally believe D&C 124 was speaking to those that brought polygamy into the Church:

"And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord God.
And I will answer judgment, wrath, and indignation, wailing, and anguish, and gnashing of teeth upon their heads, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord your God." (D&C 124:50,52)

What happened? The fourth president of the Church declared:
"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."...
"The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have." (Official Declaration 1)

We don't belong to the Church of Joseph Smith, Bonnie. Members of our Church bear the name of Jesus Christ.

Sorry, Aaron, but your church follows Joseph Smith, not the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. Your church members should be called "Smithians."

Your presidents have been leading Mormons astray for many decades, leading them to believe in a false god, a false Christ, and a false Gospel, which includes Temple ordinances. So, that declaration is absolutely false.


So, has your church repudiated Smith and his teachings, his marrying young, teen-aged girls, and other men's wives? Have they denounced him as a false prophet? And rejected his many false teachings, like the ones he taught in the King Follett discourse?

 

[brotherofJared]

And since when have I ever defended polygamy?
JS ended getting killed over this issue. We no longer practice polygamy. Please pick something relevant.

False. He got killed because Christians hated us and tried to exterminate us. It had nothing to do with polygamy, that came much later.

We still practice polygamy and will continue to do so long as eternal marriage exists.

 

[brotherofJared]

Sorry, but it is VERY relevant! Smith wasn't killed over polygamy

Well, I'll be... we agree on something.

 

[brotherofJared]

Sorry, Aaron, but your church follows Joseph Smith, not the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. Your church members should be called "Smithians."

LOL. Your church follows Luther and not Jesus Christ. It should be called "Lutherans"... oh. That's right, it is called that.

The real debate should be over who actually follows Jesus. Clearly, we'll win that debate hands down.

 

[Aaron32]

False. He got killed because Christians hated us and tried to exterminate us.

I disagree.

It had nothing to do with polygamy, that came much later.

If Joseph Smith had left the idea of polygamy alone, there would have been no need to destroy the printing press of the Nauvoo Expositor, IMO.

We still practice polygamy and will continue to do so long as eternal marriage exists.

Not in the way Joseph Smith or Brigham Young went about it.

 

[Aaron32]

Sorry, Aaron, but your church follows Joseph Smith, not the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. Your church members should be called "Smithians."

That's your opinion, I suppose.

Your presidents have been leading Mormons astray for many decades, leading them to believe in a false god, a false Christ, and a false Gospel, which includes Temple ordinances. So, that declaration is absolutely false.

If its "absolutely false", can you substantiate this?
Can you prove your God or Christ true, and mine false? Talking about absolutes is a bold claim.
You're simply using your beliefs as a lens to judge my beliefs.
If you can't prove it "absolutely", then what if your wrong? Are you being Christian? No. You're not, and I can prove that simply by comparing and contrasting your behavior to the beatitudes.
If Jesus didn't seek to condemn the world, then why do you?

So, has your church repudiated Smith

Not officially, because there's a lot of nuance that the public generally doesn't want to recognize. The Church understands the PR game. The pure in heart can recognize the truth.

and his teachings,

Regarding polygamy? Yes. That's why we don't practice it.

his marrying young, teen-aged girls, and other men's wives?

This simply isn't relevant. It's a red herring. Men are imperfect. Joseph Smith's errors or sins doesn't pertain to the salvation of you or me. In contrast, if we're being honest, we can learn a lot of lessons from Joseph Smith's mistakes.

Have they denounced him as a false prophet?

You mean like cancel culture? No. That would be an all or nothing fallacy.

And rejected his many false teachings, like the ones he taught in the King Follett discourse?

You don't see the King Follett Discourse in the Standard Works do you? There's only one place on the Church website I can even find it, ad that comes with a giant disclaimer saying essentially, "we're not sure if all these statements are thought through completely".
Here's a manual used in the early 2000's, clarifying the teachings of Joseph Smith that the Church actually endorses. Keep in mind, this isn't an apologetic sent to the public, this is a manual to teach beliefs to the members:

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

So, here's the question. If the Church itself isn't teaching what you say we teach, then where are members getting these hidden teachings? It can't be the temple, the temple video can be found online. So who's promoting the King Follett Discourse? How do Mormons learn about it? I'll tell you - it's enemies of the Church that want to build strawmen arguments.
It's dishonest and lying to claim we study the King Follett Discourse. It's only known in the apologetic sphere. My parents weren't even aware of it when I told them about it. Face it, Bonnie. You're doing the devil's work by promoting lies. I know you have the best of intentions, but it's anti-mormonism that's the cult here, not my church.
Walk your talk and do the very thing you'd want Mormons to do - challenge the authorities that spread these beliefs and find out for yourself. You can't claim ignorance on this anymore. "Make His paths straight" is a statement you should be taking personally. I'm not asking to believe what I believe, but at minimum you should atleast represent us accurately and honestly. Go talk to a Mormon youth, or maybe a missionary or young couple in the Mormon bubble, and ask them about polygamy and the King Follett Discourse directly. You'll probably get a look of confusion. And then ask yourself, what is it exactly that I'm fighting here? And if you think about it long enough, you'll realize you're doing the devil's bidding.

 

[Theo1689]

Now, please, let's do the Christlike thing, and let bygones be bygones, and end this childishness.

I would love for you to do that.
But my patience is wearing thin.

 

[Bonnie]

That's your opinion, I suppose.

No, it is fact. Your church says "Follow the prophets!" and it believes JS was a true prophet, correct?

If its "absolutely false", can you substantiate this?

All you need do is look at all of the false doctrines your church teaches--that HF is one of many gods; there is a heavenly "mother"; the Snow couplet; Father, Son, and HG are three gods; that Smith was a true prophet even though almost none of the prophesies he made in God's name came true; he married 14-year old girls and even other men's wives, some for time as well as eternity, sometimes using blackmail to do so ("an angel with a sword will kill me if you don't marry me!").....

Can you prove your God or Christ true, and mine false? Talking about absolutes is a bold claim.

Yes. Just compare the Jesus Christ of the Bible with the Mormon Jesus Christ, who is actually Satan's actual brother in the pre-mortal spirit existence. Where is that in the Bible?

Compare the true God of the Bible with the Mormon "heavenly father."

You're simply using your beliefs as a lens to judge my beliefs.

FALSE! I am using the BIBLE as a lens to judge Mormon teachings!

If you can't prove it "absolutely", then what if your wrong? Are you being Christian? No. You're not, and I can prove that simply by comparing and contrasting your behavior to the beatitudes.

Since when is speaking the truth bad behavior? I am not attacking you at all. You seem like a nice, reasonable person to me. What I do attack is false teachings that lead people astray from the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and full salvation, great and free, in His holy Name.

If Jesus didn't seek to condemn the world, then why do you?

Where have I condemned the world?

 

[Bonnie]

Part 2, for Aaron:

Not officially, because there's a lot of nuance that the public generally doesn't want to recognize. The Church understands the PR game. The pure in heart can recognize the truth.

So, your church has not repudiated Smith as the lying, hypocritical false prophet he was....has it?
Oh, so your church is into the "PR" game???? Well, why not, since it is a money making corporation more than a true church.

Regarding polygamy? Yes. That's why we don't practice it.

Then that means that both Smith and Young were wrong, and that makes both false prophets--doesn't it?

This simply isn't relevant. It's a red herring. Men are imperfect. Joseph Smith's errors or sins doesn't pertain to the salvation of you or me. In contrast, if we're being honest, we can learn a lot of lessons from Joseph Smith's mistakes.

Yes, we have learned that he was a lying false prophet and a hypocrite, to boot! Jesus said many false Christs and false prophets would arise in His name and we would know them "by their fruits." And Smith bore rotten fruit! And marrying 14 year old girls and other men's wives is proof of his bad fruit. Plus, most of his "prophesies" that he made in God's name failed to come true. That alone makes him a lying false prophet.

You mean like cancel culture? No. That would be an all or nothing fallacy.

Why? Jesus didn't seem to have a problem with telling us that false prophets would bear bad fruit. He didn't say "well, if they teach some good things, even though they might marry other men's wives, be hypocrites in following their own teachings, and lead profligate lives, that doesn't matter, because, after all, no one is perfect and we all sin."

Did Jesus say anything like that? Did God, in Deut. 18, when He told us how to spot false prophets?

You don't see the King Follett Discourse in the Standard Works do you? There's only one place on the Church website I can even find it, ad that comes with a giant disclaimer saying essentially, "we're not sure if all these statements are thought through completely".

One place? Here it is:

King Follett Discourse

King Follett Discourse

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Your church's website has changed drastically since I was on it last, which was probably a year or more ago. Their search engine is the pits, so I just Google it, and this link popped up, coming directly from your church's website. You're welcome! But your church seems to endorse it. I didn't see any disclaimer in the link, either.

Here's a manual used in the early 2000's, clarifying the teachings of Joseph Smith that the Church actually endorses. Keep in mind, this isn't an apologetic sent to the public, this is a manual to teach beliefs to the members:

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Then why is the King Follett sermon even on your church's website? What he taught in it is exemplified in the Snow Couplet which Smith endorsed. But if your church doesn't teach what Smith taught in the KFD, then that means Smith was a false teacher, teaching HERESY! So, why follow a false teacher and a heretic???

So, here's the question. If the Church itself isn't teaching what you say we teach, then where are members getting these hidden teachings? It can't be the temple, the temple video can be found online.

Yes, but it was recorded secretly. Precisely because it is a secret in your church, though not anymore, thanks to NewNameNoah.

So who's promoting the King Follett Discourse? How do Mormons learn about it? I'll tell you - it's enemies of the Church that want to build strawmen arguments.

See the link to it from your church's website that I posted above.

It's dishonest and lying to claim we study the King Follett Discourse.

I don't think I wrote that, Aaron. If I did, please point out to me where I did. Thnx. But do check out that link.

It's only known in the apologetic sphere. My parents weren't even aware of it when I told them about it. Face it, Bonnie. You're doing the devil's work by promoting lies.

I am promoting no lies. The KFD exists and it is heresy. It is on your church's website. I posted the link.

I know you have the best of intentions, but it's anti-mormonism that's the cult here, not my church.

Yes, it is anti-Mormonism. NOT "anti-Mormon" so thank you for not writing the latter. And recognizing I have good intentions.

Walk your talk and do the very thing you'd want Mormons to do - challenge the authorities that spread these beliefs and find out for yourself.

I can't--Smith is dead and your church still thinks he is a true prophet despite evidence to the contrary.

You can't claim ignorance on this anymore. "Make His paths straight" is a statement you should be taking personally. I'm not asking to believe what I believe, but at minimum you should atleast represent us accurately and honestly.

I have been representing Mormonism as honestly as I can. I know wiki isn't the best source, but the following IS heavily footnoted:

King Follett discourse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LDS Church president Lorenzo Snow succinctly summarized a portion of the doctrine explained in this discourse using a couplet, which is often repeated within the church:

As man now is, God once was:
As God now is, man may be.[12][13]

The LDS Church today teaches that the King Follett discourse was "the most direct, public explanation" of unique doctrines, such as that of humanity's premortal existence and divine potential, that are alluded to in Latter Day Saint scripture.[14] However, with respect to the nature of God prior to creation, the church has stated that "Little has been revealed ... and consequently little is taught."[15]

Your church DOES teach that men can progress to godhood in the highest level of the CK, called "exaltation", becoming gods and creators of worlds....correct? I have seen that written. Well, that is partly what Smith talked about in the KFD. And the Snow couplet exemplifies this: "As man now is, God once was. As God now is, man may become." Snow showed this to Smith who endorsed it (some versions I have read leave off the "now").

Go talk to a Mormon youth, or maybe a missionary or young couple in the Mormon bubble, and ask them about polygamy and the King Follett Discourse directly. You'll probably get a look of confusion.

I already know that. A lot of folks in your church don't know your church's history and some of its more....unusual teachings. But they DO know about their potential to become gods and creators of worlds after exaltation, don't they?

And then ask yourself, what is it exactly that I'm fighting here?

False teachings and false prophets that lead people away from the true Jesus Christ to perdition by following false prophets that teach false gods and a false Gospel.

And if you think about it long enough, you'll realize you're doing the devil's bidding.

Sorry, but that is utterly false! I am exposing the lies and false teachings of your church, that have been leading people astray from true salvation with the true Jesus Christ of the Bible, to believe in a false god and a false savior--Satan's actual older brother (!)--and a false gospel that saves no one. They are LIES. WHO is the father of lies, Aaron?

Was Jesus doing the "devil's bidding" in Matthew 23?

I hope someday you stop resisting the Holy Spirit and repudiate Mormonism and turn to the TRUE Jesus Christ of the Bible who loves you dearly and Who alone saves and saves completely. God bless you.

 

[brotherofJared]

I disagree

Of course you do, you're a prophet with the holy Spirit.

If Joseph Smith had left the idea of polygamy alone, there would have been no need to destroy the printing press of the Nauvoo Expositor, IMO

Your opinion is noted. The haters were out to get him to stop the progress of the church. If it wasn't one excuse, it would have been another.

Not in the way Joseph Smith or Brigham Young went about it.

Actually, nothing has changed so long as eternal marriage exists. The end result is the same. If you're married, your wife will most likely insist that you not marry again in the temple because she doesn't want to share you with another woman in the life to come. It is very real and very much the same and the women of the church know this. Your denial doesn't affect its veracity one but. Polygamy can't be avoided so long as eternal marriage exists. Get rid of that, return to until death do us part, everyone becomes sterile at the resurrection and there won't be any need for polygamy.

 

[brotherofJared]

So, your church has not repudiated Smith as the lying, hypocritical false prophet he was....has it?

There's nothing to repudiate. You guys are off your rockers. Your claims have no basis in reality and until they find a real foundation, your opinions about Smith remain superfluous.

Oh, so your church is into the "PR" game???? Well, why not, since it is a money making corporation more than a true church.

LOL. That argument has nothing to do with Smith or your claim that he lied. Dig a little deeper, I'm not sure you could find a more irrelevant argument. The church was broke all during the days that Smith was alive.

Then that means that both Smith and Young were wrong, and that makes both false prophets--doesn't it?

No. They can be wrong and not be false prophets. But in this case they aren't the ones that were wrong.

One place? Here it is

There's nothing wrong with the King Follett Discourse. The issue is with the interpretation of it. Personally, I find it remarkable that any member of the church would discard it simply because it's not in the scriptures. McConkie called it calculus where people who are not members of the church can barely handle arithmetic. The scriptures were meant for the world. It contains the arithmetic of the gospel which is built line upon line. It is impossible to grasp the concept of exaltation if you can't understand the nature of God. For this reason, it's not explicitly described or explained in the Bible or the Book of Mormon.

One would think that a member of the church would recognize the value of anything a person who actually talked to God face to face would have to say. Instead, we find members of the church who have never seen God or any heavenly messenger judging Joseph's work.