Runningman
Well-known member
Are you denying the man Jesus is the Son of God?
WHO said this?
- Thread starter Our Lord's God
- Start date
Tanachreader
Well-known member
Are you denying the Son of God “came down from Heaven” and became the Son of Man?
Runningman
Well-known member
You're even confused about that. A human descended from heaven. Catching on yet?
John 3
13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
Tanachreader
Well-known member
A human didn’t descend. Surely you read about His birth.
Means the one who descended is Himself. He is the Son of Man.
I will break it down for you.
The Word became flesh. John 1:1-18
The Son of God who had Glory with His Father was sent from Heaven to become the Son of Man.
But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the One who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
He wasn’t a human a Jew until He was conceived.
Runningman
Well-known member
Exactly, yet the "son of man" descended from heaven. Son of man means human throughout the Bible. It isn't that he literally descended from heaven.
Tanachreader
Well-known member
Jesus, as the Preincarnate Son of God, existed in heaven before His earthly birth. His descent to Earth was not a temporary visit; rather, He “clothed Himself with humanity” and remains both fully divine and fully human, never unclothing Himself from His human nature.
Micah 5:2 (NKJV) “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, [Though] you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting.”
Jesus was evidently not a human being before being placed in the womb of his human mother.
It is not said that Jesus is "son of man" because he maintains his human nature forever, but because at some point of his life he was also human and in that same human nature, he lived for about 33 years being obedient to God, and as a human he was thirsty, hungry, etc., and more than that, he allowed himself to be murdered by God's enemies without failing God.
Heb. 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.
Now Jesus is no longer a human, because the physical human nature that he had was inferior to the nature of the spirits. If he were still a human, God's enemies would be more physically powerful than him and could, just as when he was on earth, cause him physical harm. Likewise, if he were a human in heaven, he could not live without satisfying human physical needs such as breathing, drinking, eating, etc.
Heb. 1:3 (...) after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.
Jesus is now not a being of flesh and blood. However, the Bible sometimes refers to him as "son of man" to remind us that he was obedient to God when he was equal to us, and in that state he learned to obey God under natural physical trials and necessities, which In that state he paid the price for his human brothers, offering his life when he shed his human blood until death.
Now Jesus is an even more powerful spirit than he was before he was human, because he was rewarded for obeying God until death in a weaker state, that of humans.
Heb. 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Melchizedek.
So in Jesus' history or record of fidelity, his loyalty in a physical nature similar to ours is added. So when it is said that Jesus is "the son of man" it doesn't mean that he is still a human being, but it refers to the fact that he received the reward after having been one of us: the second Adam.
Phil. 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
It is not said that Jesus is "son of man" because he maintains his human nature forever, but because at some point of his life he was also human and in that same human nature, he lived for about 33 years being obedient to God, and as a human he was thirsty, hungry, etc., and more than that, he allowed himself to be murdered by God's enemies without failing God.
Heb. 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.
Now Jesus is no longer a human, because the physical human nature that he had was inferior to the nature of the spirits. If he were still a human, God's enemies would be more physically powerful than him and could, just as when he was on earth, cause him physical harm. Likewise, if he were a human in heaven, he could not live without satisfying human physical needs such as breathing, drinking, eating, etc.
Heb. 1:3 (...) after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.
Jesus is now not a being of flesh and blood. However, the Bible sometimes refers to him as "son of man" to remind us that he was obedient to God when he was equal to us, and in that state he learned to obey God under natural physical trials and necessities, which In that state he paid the price for his human brothers, offering his life when he shed his human blood until death.
Now Jesus is an even more powerful spirit than he was before he was human, because he was rewarded for obeying God until death in a weaker state, that of humans.
Heb. 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Melchizedek.
So in Jesus' history or record of fidelity, his loyalty in a physical nature similar to ours is added. So when it is said that Jesus is "the son of man" it doesn't mean that he is still a human being, but it refers to the fact that he received the reward after having been one of us: the second Adam.
Phil. 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
You are blatantly denying what the Bible says.
Rom. 15:5 Now may the God who supplies endurance and comfort grant you to have among yourselves the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor. 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our trials so that we may be able to comfort others in any sort of trial with the comfort that we receive from God.
Eph. 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ, 4 as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love.
1 Pet. 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you, 5 who are being safeguarded by God’s power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last period of time.
Runningman
Well-known member
You're all over the place. First it was the "son of God" descended from heaven. So we looked at the Bible and couldn't find anything in regards to what you were talking about. After that, you're moving on to your other recycled talking points. Again.
Jesus Christ did not exist until God miraculously caused Mary to conceive.
No person can have two opposite natures at the same time.
When Jesus was born as a human, he stopped being a spirit. And when he was resurrected as a spirit, he was no longer a human being.
If Jesus had been a "divine" species when he walked among men, would he have suffered hunger and thirst? Would he have had to learn to walk, to talk? Would he have had to be raised by two imperfect human parents? Could he have been murdered?
Christolaters do not understand what "nature" is. That term applies to the type of body someone has, the type of flesh, etc. Spirits cannot know what concerns human nature, and a human does not know what the environment is like where angels and other spiritual beings are (Heb. 12:18-24). Each "world" has a type of nature that is specific to that world.
Heb. 2:14 Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, 15 and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death. 16 For it is not really angels he is assisting, but he is assisting Abraham’s offspring. 17 Consequently, he had to become like his “brothers” in all respects, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, in order to offer a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people. 18 Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.
For this reason, humans cannot live outside the planet, nor can angels coexist with human beings as if they were their equals.
When Jesus was born as a human, he stopped being a spirit. And when he was resurrected as a spirit, he was no longer a human being.
If Jesus had been a "divine" species when he walked among men, would he have suffered hunger and thirst? Would he have had to learn to walk, to talk? Would he have had to be raised by two imperfect human parents? Could he have been murdered?
Christolaters do not understand what "nature" is. That term applies to the type of body someone has, the type of flesh, etc. Spirits cannot know what concerns human nature, and a human does not know what the environment is like where angels and other spiritual beings are (Heb. 12:18-24). Each "world" has a type of nature that is specific to that world.
Heb. 2:14 Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, 15 and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death. 16 For it is not really angels he is assisting, but he is assisting Abraham’s offspring. 17 Consequently, he had to become like his “brothers” in all respects, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, in order to offer a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people. 18 Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.
For this reason, humans cannot live outside the planet, nor can angels coexist with human beings as if they were their equals.
Jesus Christ did not exist until God miraculously caused Mary to conceive, except in God's plan.
After he was resurrected, he became a resurrected immortal human being.
...he's not Michael.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Your unBiblical imaginations are irrelevant.
But Scripture states that a human being is sitting at the right hand of God.
Your statement is antichrist heresy of the highest order.
Tanachreader
Well-known member
You looked and couldn’t find?
Answer Micah 5:2!
Again you are stumped.
Jesus, as the Preincarnate Son of God, existed in heaven before His earthly birth. His descent to Earth was not a temporary visit; rather, He “clothed Himself with humanity” and remains both fully divine and fully human, never unclothing Himself from His human nature.
Micah 5:2 (NKJV) “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, [Though] you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting.”
Runningman
Well-known member
Read the chapter. That person isn't God. The context is of a prophecy. Jesus didn't shepherd his flock in the name of his God until after he was born. And I keep showing you this. Apparently you are either not reading or you don't care.
Micah 5
4He will stand and shepherd His flock
in the strength of the LORD,
in the majestic name of the LORD His God.
And they will dwell securely,
for then His greatness will extend
to the ends of the earth.
John 10
11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
Tanachreader
Well-known member
So you now accept His preexistence as the Son of God “Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting.”
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Do you accept that you are dishonestly cherry picking with a plot to deceive others?
And his comings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity. Youngs Literal.
whose origins are in the distant past. NET
Whose origin is from of old, from ancient times. NAB
whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. NIV
whose origin is from of old, from ancient days. RSV
whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days. ESV
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Men do NOT descend from heaven.
Only God and angels do.
Runningman
Well-known member
With Jesus being the Son of Man and descending from heaven, it means Jesus isn’t God. Seems you have finally figured it out.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Was the baptism of John from heaven, or from men? Answer Me.”
Mark 11:30
There was a man sent from God whose name was John.
John 1:6
Now what? We get to listen to you foot stomping and contradicting yourself again?