Why Jews will never accept Jesus

[Bob Carabbio]

The messiah is a footnote.

Which makes it OBVIOUS that Religious Jews don't have A CLUE about what the Old Testament is all about, and what it points to. The TOTAL FAILURE of Israel to even come close to obeying their precious LAW, makes God's provision of a SAVIOR utterly necessary for ANYBODY to get into eternal life in Heaven when they die physically. Jews (except for the ones who become Born AGAIN by Faith in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus (Isa 53) are already dead spiritually even as they live physically.

 

[Open Heart]

Which makes it OBVIOUS that Religious Jews don't have A CLUE about what the Old Testament is all about, and what it points to.

Remember that it is to the Jews that God gave these oracles. They are our books -- books written by Jews for Jews about Jews. No one, and I mean no one, delves into them deeper and in the original language more than Jews. For you to try to say the opposite is just laughable. That you actually believe it is... sad.

 

[tbeachhead]

Just bits and pieces...

For the sceptic his skepticism suffices...and he has nothing. For the historian, there is sufficient evidence to make denial untenable. You have what you need to stay safe in your own mind.

The only difference is that the law is written on the hearts and minds.

That makes two covenants...and the teacher teaches from within. "The only difference..." is one is old and one is new. And the blood of the New covenant covers all Adam's race.

Faith and action. That's what counts, Genesis 18:19.

Always has...and faith isn't a smorgasbord: God said it. Believe it or you have no faith.

Have you provided quotes?

Every time I cite scripture, I quote the words. I might include chapter and verse, but the point is, if I want you to read my posts I make it readable.

Thank you. I'm not concerned about your circles.

Clearly. And now you know anyway.

Ok. Oh, it works alright.

You're satisfied. That's what matters. It's still specious.

Yes, contact with the dead, belongings, etc., defiles. Read Numbers 19 and the requirements to be cleansed when defiled. Jesus was defiled before his death according to John.

Jesus, who knew no sin, was made sin for us. You are right. Sin is defiled...The goat was taken outside the city...defiled by the hands of the priest whose sin and the sin of whose nation was laid on the goat.

You're getting warmer. He was also hung on a tree, and made a curse. "He that is hanged on a tree is cursed by God."

No need to challenge a dead man. It's fact.

Now you're in denial. The upheaval began upon the morning of His resurrection, and no credible denial worked. The news of His resurrection could not be and never was squelched. You tried. It did not work. The tomb, the location of which was known, was empty...and no cadaver was ever produced to provide proof for your fallacious claims. That's history.

Such an event would have been seen by Romans, etc., and it wasn't. No tombs breaking open, no resurrected saints walking around, etc.

It was seen by Romans, attested to by eyewitnesses, the denial failed, and the news spread and changed an empire.

If this event ever occurred.

It began the era of the Nazarene sect. The evidence is good.

Then he didn't fulfill all of the commandments.

He did. He was also faithful to His bride. To have touched another would have been adultery. The wedding is imminent.

Then any Jew can do this. And have. No need for Jesus. Thank you.

Of course any Jew can...anyone can. BECAUSE of Jesus. The veil has been torn, and the offering accepted. It's a matter of faith...

It's an argument you can't refute. And Paul is still an apostate.

I don't have to refute it...History does...and if Paul is correct you are the apostate.

Full of abrogation of the law. Just what a false teacher and prophet does.

The most interesting point you keep bringing up is this...when you have selectively abrogated the Law, and based your own righteousness on your arbitrary choices, because these choices were made for you centuries ago, when the temple went down, and the Ark of the Covenant was taken.

Your religion is one of abrogation, and refuses to see in the fulfillment both a plan and a hope.

 

[tbeachhead]

Sorry. He broke his wine vow at the cross, was defiled at the Praetorium and didn't cleanse for sins as required, he contributed to the temple funds used for personal sacrifices, cried the prayer of a sinner in Hebrews 5:7, etc.

This is funny. "Broke his wine vow"? What wine vow. Jesus was never a Nazarite. He made gallons of the best wine from water at a wedding feast. John the Baptizer was a Nazarite from birth. Not Jesus. He was made sin for us all at the Praetorium and led outside the city. The goat was not washed in the wilderness. He was left for Azazel with the sin of the nation on his head, having been defiled by the high priest.

And your interpretation is bizarre: "7 During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence."

Where is this "the prayer of the sinner?" This was the prayer of the intercessor...the prayer of Moses. This prayer raised the dead: "I thank you for hearing me. I know that you always hear me, but I say this for these to hear." This is the prayer of the One Who endured the cross so that you could have this argument...and understand and benefit. John 17 quotes Jesus' prayer. Not the sinner's prayer. The High Priest's prayer for your sake and for your family's sake.

 

[tbeachhead]

The Tanakh (OT) says barely a thing about the messiah. The Tanakh concerns itself with obedience to the Law. The messiah is a footnote.

Actually...a cornerstone...that the builders rejected, as it is written. This post is just another fulfillment of that word.

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm sorry. Jesus wasn't on Mt. Sinai. If you look at Isaiah 63, you can see the Father lead Israel, Moses, etc.

Jesus was under the law, born quite a bit later.

Jesus created the world.Jesus was with the Father and Spirit before creation. Deut6:4, jn1:1-14, jn17

 

[Iconoclast]

Or simply as a nice Jewish man.

lol, there are no other God/man...walking around.
He took upon the form of a servant.
The servant of the Lord, actually isa.49

 

[Jewjitzu]

For the sceptic his skepticism suffices...and he has nothing. For the historian, there is sufficient evidence to make denial untenable. You have what you need to stay safe in your own mind.

Bits and pieces. Nothing concrete. BTW, for the most part, everything is first Oral and then written down. I can only think of the 10 commandments being handed down all ready written. Everything is revealed then written down. So, the Oral Torah is the same.

That makes two covenants...and the teacher teaches from within. "The only difference..." is one is old and one is new.

Same covenant as it is just renewed, rewritten on a different surface.

And the blood of the New covenant covers all Adam's race.

No, just those of the houses of Israel and Judah. That's crystal clear.

Always has...and faith isn't a smorgasbord: God said it. Believe it or you have no faith.

He said the above.

Every time I cite scripture, I quote the words...

Given that your responses have been wordy, and replies would be over the limit for text characters, I do what I do.

Jesus, who knew no sin, was made sin for us. You are right. Sin is defiled...

And Jesus was defiled of his own sin. Numbers 19.

The goat was taken outside the city...defiled by the hands of the priest whose sin and the sin of whose nation was laid on the goat.

Wrong. No mention of the goat being defiled.

You're getting warmer. He was also hung on a tree, and made a curse. "He that is hanged on a tree is cursed by God."

Yep, hung not crucified.

Now you're in denial. The upheaval began upon the morning of His resurrection, and no credible denial worked. The news of His resurrection could not be and never was squelched. You tried. It did not work. The tomb, the location of which was known, was empty...and no cadaver was ever produced to provide proof for your fallacious claims. That's history.

Fabricated history. No resurrection. Dead men tell no tales. Read James Tabor regarding Jesus and his death and resurrection.

It was seen by Romans, attested to by eyewitnesses, the denial failed, and the news spread and changed an empire.

Where do Romans attest to the resurrection? Or the tombs of saints breaking open? Etc.

It began the era of the Nazarene sect. The evidence is good.
He did. He was also faithful to His bride. To have touched another would have been adultery.

Marrying a woman is not adultery. Even more than one wife is not adultery. If Jesus didn't marry a real woman and had physical children, then he didn't fulfill all of the commandments. You said he did.

The wedding is imminent.
Of course any Jew can...anyone can. BECAUSE of Jesus. The veil has been torn, and the offering accepted. It's a matter of faith...

The temple veil was never rent at Jesus' death. That is made up.

I don't have to refute it...History does...and if Paul is correct you are the apostate.

But Paul isn't correct and Torah itself attests to him being a false prophet and teacher.

The most interesting point you keep bringing up is this...when you have selectively abrogated the Law, and based your own righteousness on your arbitrary choices, because these choices were made for you centuries ago, when the temple went down, and the Ark of the Covenant was taken.

Daniel was in the same circumstances and was righteous. That debunks your theory. Jesus was defiled and didn't cleanse according to the commandments, etc. He had no excuse, right?

Your religion is one of abrogation, and refuses to see in the fulfillment both a plan and a hope.

No. That is the church as depicted in Daniel 7:25, changing the religion, holidays, aborgating the law, etc. That's your heritage. Sorry.

 

[Jewjitzu]

This is funny. "Broke his wine vow"? What wine vow.

Mark 14:25. He drank wine at the cross.

Jesus was never a Nazarite.

Then he didn't fulfill all of the commandments?

He made gallons of the best wine from water at a wedding feast.

And that has nothing to do with the conversation, even though the custom was to preserve grape juice as a syrup in barrels and then to add water to liquify it. He would have done nothing more.

John the Baptizer was a Nazarite from birth. Not Jesus.

And?

He was made sin for us all at the Praetorium and led outside the city.

He was defiled by contact with the dead. He would have been defiled over the course of his ministry and would have had to been cleansed from sin in accordance with Numbers 19. There's no way around this.

The goat was not washed in the wilderness. He was left for Azazel with the sin of the nation on his head, having been defiled by the high priest.

And? Where does it say a defiled goat is brought?

And your interpretation is bizarre: "7 During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence."

Prosenenkas is used in the context of sacrifices, petition of a sinner. That's what Jesus did, crying for salivation.

Where is this "the prayer of the sinner?" This was the prayer of the intercessor...the prayer of Moses.

See above.

This prayer raised the dead: "I thank you for hearing me. I know that you always hear me, but I say this for these to hear."

No, God, not Jesus, would have accomplished the miracle. If he were truly God, he could have done it himself.

This is the prayer of the One Who endured the cross so that you could have this argument...and understand and benefit. John 17 quotes Jesus' prayer. Not the sinner's prayer. The High Priest's prayer for your sake and for your family's sake.

I pray directly.

 

[Iconoclast]

Remember that it is to the Jews that God gave these oracles. They are our books -- books written by Jews for Jews about Jews. No one, and I mean no one, delves into them deeper and in the original language more than Jews. For you to try to say the opposite is just laughable. That you actually believe it is... sad.

Without the Spirit of God indwelling you, you cannot welcome the truth of God.
Your teachers are false as in Ezk34.
Jesus had to come and seek and save that which was lost.
A remnant Isa1:9....plus multitudes of Gentiles

 

[Jewjitzu]

Jesus created the world.Jesus was with the Father and Spirit before creation. Deut6:4, jn1:1-14, jn17

Sorry, but Tanakh is clear the Father created all alone. The NT is false.

 

[tbeachhead]

Sorry, but Tanakh is clear the Father created all alone. The NT is false.

Not without the Word and the Spirit. The Tanakh is VERY clear on this.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Without the Spirit of God indwelling you, you cannot welcome the truth of God.

And the spirit of God leads to obedience to the law, Ezekiel 36:26-27. So, God doesn't dwell in you.

Your teachers are false as in Ezk34.
Jesus had to come and seek and save that which was lost.

Just the lost house of Israel. Remember, only the sick need a doctor.

A remnant Isa1:9....plus multitudes of Gentiles

You need to grafted according to Isaiah 56:1-8. Otherwise, you're out.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Not without the Word and the Spirit. The Tanakh is VERY clear on this.

Nope, just the Father. He spoke and all was created. You can see this in Neh 9:6 where God was exclusively alone with no one else. It's clear in the Hebrew, TBH.

One LORD, one person, with that name. He alone is the LORD. It's crystal clear.

 

[Jewjitzu]

lol, there are no other God/man...walking around.
He took upon the form of a servant.
The servant of the Lord, actually isa.49

Yep, Israel the servant.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Actually...a cornerstone...that the builders rejected, as it is written. This post is just another fulfillment of that word.

Your verse doesn't mention Messiah in the context, TBH.

 

[Rachel Redux]

Then there's no need to come to earth. Where is the blood in heaven before earth was created mentioned?

I know everything you're going to throw out to me...

That's because you're a converted Jew aren't you...or are you even converted? We can never really know who we're talking to here. I'm just saying...

 

[Open Heart]

Believe it or you have no faith.

Is faith not trust? It does not take a lot of trust to obey if you believe. But to doubt and obey anyways? That takes great faith.

 

[tbeachhead]

Mark 14:25. He drank wine at the cross.

Not the wine of the seder....Different vine!

Then he didn't fulfill all of the commandments?

There is no commandment, "Thou shalt be a Nazarite."

And that has nothing to do with the conversation, even though the custom was to preserve grape juice as a syrup in barrels and then to add water to liquify it. He would have done nothing more.

False. He turned water that had just filled the jars into the best wine of the meal. Read it again. It was water. It was made wine.

The same happened in the sixties in the revival in Indonesia when an Episcopalian church ran out of wine. The eyewitness testimony, even from hostile witness, is compelling.

And?

And nothing. So...don't confuse John with Jesus. Jesus was not a Nazarite...and had not vowed not to drink wine. He asked for a drink on the cross...He wasn't in a position to push the sopping sponge away.

He was defiled by contact with the dead. He would have been defiled over the course of his ministry and would have had to been cleansed from sin in accordance with Numbers 19. There's no way around this.

When the dead rise, they are no longer dead. When the leper is cleansed, he is not unclean. You're making claims from silence...we're. not told his hygiene, only his revulsion for the hypocritical. The inside was cleansed, and he observed all the sacrifices...unlike today's Jew who has had to abrogate the Law by necessity, and excuse himself by tradition and by doing what seemed right in his own eyes.

And? Where does it say a defiled goat is brought?

It says the priest confesses the sins of the nation on the head of the goat. Sin defiles. Jesus was made sin...and taken outside the camp.

Prosenenkas is used in the context of sacrifices, petition of a sinner.

Is that Greek? The verb implies the position of the body. It has nothing to do with what the petition is. That depends on who is bowing the knee.

That's what Jesus did, crying for salivation.

Well...not for His salvation. He was pure and spotless, and undefiled until he was made sin. He did cry for YOUR salvation. Still is...He ever lives to make intercession on your behalf. You should hear what those cries sound like.

See above.

See above.

No, God, not Jesus, would have accomplished the miracle. If he were truly God, he could have done it himself.

God, through Jesus, accomplished the miracle. He did. nothing without the Father who dwelt in Him.

I pray directly.

I'm sure you are heard. God is good. He also prays...He ever lives to pray. He, too, is good.

 

[Open Heart]

That's because you're a converted Jew aren't you...or are you even converted? We can never really know who we're talking to here. I'm just saying...

Why would it matter? His answers stand on their own.