Mormons hope to become Gods and Create Planets to Rule

[brotherofJared]

Where has anyone said that being saved frees you from keeping the commandments?

Let's try this one, Where our critics claim that salvation does not depend on keeping the commandments. It's the same statement. Our critics seem to be confused about it. Of course, it's necessary to keep the commandments, right?

 

[dberrie2020]

Where has anyone said that being saved frees you from keeping the commandments?

I believe where a line of demarcation occurs is when the critics claim one is saved, excluding all obedience to Jesus Christ--including keeping the commandments.

If that is true--could someone explain why Jesus connected keeping the commandments with eternal life?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Theo1689]

I believe where a line of demarcation occurs is when the critics claim one is saved, excluding all obedience to Jesus Christ--including keeping the commandments.

1) That is NOT what "the critics claim".

2) What "the critics" believe is OFF-TOPIC here, since they aren't Mormons.

If that is true--could someone explain why Jesus connected keeping the commandments with eternal life?

It's not.

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The reason Jesus taught this was to get him to come to the following conclusion:

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

People need to keep failing to keep the law, until they realize it is impossible to keep it, and must instead rely on the mercy of God:

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

 

[Janice Bower]

Here:


I'm advocating Eph 2:10, that we are created FOR good works that are ordained of God.
See post #919. Apperantly it doesn't matter what we do, we are "eternally secured", which would make the commandments optional.

So you decided to twist what Yeshua said instead of being truthful. Nice try.

 

[Janice Bower]

The verse testifies those who endure shall be saved:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Where does one find eternal life is given--and then they endure--in that verse?



But wouldn't you make the same claim about the testimony of the Savior here--where He uses this criteria to divide the sheep and goats?

Matthew 25:31-46---King James Version
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Your ignorance of Christianity is showing. He that endures to the end has been saved. He that doesn't isn't a Christian. And a Christian is walking in the light because he has been saved. Verses that describe a Christian are descriptions of Christians. You don't recognize them.

We have eternal life now as well as in eternity.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

 

[Aaron32]

So you decided to twist what Yeshua said instead of being truthful. Nice try.

Again, Christians sit and wonder why Mormons believe "Faith Alone" means "easy grace".
What's so hard about saying, "Yes, of course Christians keep the commandments after we're saved."?
Or, "Yes. Obedience is a fruit of one that is saved."?

No, it's amazing what people say in order to make Mormons wrong at all costs.
I was agreeing with Yeshua on most points, and instead of accepting my agreement, he has to find some way to ensure that he is somehow right, and I'm wrong.
What other conclusion can you draw that we can reject or ignore the works God has ordained, and be eternally secured?

 

[Theo1689]

I'm advocating Eph 2:10, that we are created FOR good works that are ordained of God.
See post #919. Apperantly it doesn't matter what we do, we are "eternally secured", which would make the commandments optional.

Yes, in a very real way, the commandments are "optional".
Our salvation is not dependent on them, since salvation is by grace, and "not by works" (Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom.11:5-6, etc. etc.

The commandments are "optional".
We only do them if we "want to" do them.
And funny thing, those who have been REGENERATED by God (something you affirm, but your LDS brethren seem to be clueless about) WANT to do the commandments.

And if Mormons have the attitude, "We don't HAVE to obey the commandments, do we, mommy?!", then that suggests that Mormons don't love God, and Mormons aren't regenerated.

 

[Theo1689]

Again, Christians sit and wonder why Mormons believe "Faith Alone" means "easy grace".

Yes, because it's completely the OPPOSITE of what we profess!

What's so hard about saying, "Yes, of course Christians keep the commandments after we're saved."?
Or, "Yes. Obedience is a fruit of one that is saved."?

Nothing "hard" about that at all!
We say that constantly.

But you would rather believe lying Mormons who falsely claim we are saved "and don't do works".

You don't care about the truth.
You only care about defending Mormonism and attacking Christianity.

No, it's amazing what people say in order to make Mormons wrong at all costs.

Playing the victim again?

 

[Janice Bower]

That's good to know, Yeshua:

Romans 2:5-11--King James Version
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Ephesians 1
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms.



John 5
24, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

 

[dberrie2020]

Your ignorance of Christianity is showing. He that endures to the end has been saved.

That's not quite the testimony of Christ here:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Definition of shall

auxiliary verb
1a—used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future

 

[Janice Bower]

What other conclusion can you draw that we can reject or ignore the works God has ordained, and be eternally secured?

The prisons are full of people who don't obey God and ignore His words. But God will reach some of them.

 

[Janice Bower]

That's not quite the testimony of Christ here:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Definition of shall

auxiliary verb
1a—used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future

Who will be saved? The Christians.

You wouldn't know them, not even by their fruits.

We have eternal life now, and those who aren't blind see them by their works.

 

[Aaron32]

The prisons are full of people who don't obey God and ignore His words. But God will reach some of them.

I'm not sure how that relates to what we're talking about.

 

[Aaron32]

Yes, because it's completely the OPPOSITE of what we profess!

So don't profess it.

Nothing "hard" about that at all!
We say that constantly.

Not that I can see.

But you would rather believe lying Mormons who falsely claim we are saved "and don't do works".

You don't care about the truth.
You only care about defending Mormonism and attacking Christianity.

Personal attack - off topic.

Playing the victim again?

Nope. Just calling it like I see it.
Why didn't you answer my question?

 

[dberrie2020]

Who will be saved? The Christians.

That won't mollify your position here:

Janise Bowers said---"Your ignorance of Christianity is showing. He that endures to the end has been saved."

Again--that isn't the position of Christ:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

You wouldn't know them, not even by their fruits.

God will:

Matthew 7:19---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

[Janice Bower]

Romans 6:1-2, 1 John 4:19, Hebrews 11:1, 1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11, James 2:17 (Christ is working through us),
Matthew 7:16-18, James 2:20-24, James 2:26 (the body without the spirit is dead), Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 15:10,
Galatians 2:20, James 2:18, Ephesians 2:8-10 (Faith is a gift of God).

"He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"

 

[Janice Bower]

I'm not sure how that relates to what we're talking about.

I know you don't believe Christians are recognized by their fruits. I was once a Mormon.

 

[brotherofJared]

Your ignorance of Christianity is showing. He that endures to the end has been saved.

IF he endures to the end in well doing. Otherwise, he's just a skin bag full of hot air.

He that doesn't isn't a Christian. And a Christian is walking in the light because he has been saved.

That matters very little if he is NOT walking in the light. Our critics seem to think this is not an important element of Salvation. We do.

 

[Janice Bower]

IF he endures to the end in well doing. Otherwise, he's just a skin bag full of hot air.

That matters very little if he is NOT walking in the light. Our critics seem to think this is not an important element of Salvation. We do.

News for you: Jesus promised to be in us and with Him we do the good works He has ordained for us to do. It's definitely a work of salvation rather than for it.

 

[brotherofJared]

What's so hard about saying, "Yes, of course Christians keep the commandments after we're saved."?

Nothing. What's so hard about our critics answering the question, "What happens to Christians who don't keep the commandments"? It seems that the question is too hard. It seems to me, that either they aren't Christian or they aren't saved, but our critics won't accept either statement.