brotherofJared
Well-known member
Yes. I'm sure he will. Over 50% of them are Christians who think they've been saved.
Mormons hope to become Gods and Create Planets to Rule
- Thread starter Janice Bower
- Start date
brotherofJared
Well-known member
Those who follow Christ.
Sure. So long as they endure to the end.
How ironic. One must be a Christian to know what a Christian is.
It's statements like these that leads one to believe that keeping the commandments is irrelevant. But I think most people can tell, that you all (as no one has it now) don't have eternal life, PERIOD. This life is not eternal life. That life is just a dream. One in which you guys have no clue what it's about, so it's laughable that you think you have it now.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
Because they don't know the answer. Or they do, but answering it will expose their shortcomings.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
That matters very little if you aren't actually keeping the commandments. It's a nice thing to say, but completely meaningless without action.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Non-Christians don't keep the commandments; that is a fact.
My heart is full of gratitude.
The Apostle Paul taught God's word:
1 Corinthians 1
4I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; 5That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Theo1689
Well-known member
You mean like Jodi Arias, the Mormon murderer?
Magdalena
Well-known member
That doesn’t say you don’t have to keep the commandments if you’re saved.
dberrie2020
Super Member
Jesus has already purchased salvation for all mankind, through His Atonement and resurrection--as a free gift to all:
Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
His Atonement and Resurrection conquered death and hell for all men--as it relates to the Fall. All men can come and partake freely now--all are absolved of the condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall.
Due to the Fall--all men were condemned. Through Jesus Christ--all men are justified--absolved of the condemnation due to the Fall. Free gift. Jesus Christ alone. Eternal life is now available to all men, as a free gift.
Now--all men are judged according to their own works, and not Adam's:
Matthew 16:27--King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
So--where do we find God giving His grace unto eternal life-- to them which refuse to obey Him?
Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
dberrie2020
Super Member
Mag--I have a question about that statement--- "have to keep the commandments"--for what to happen?
Aaron32
Well-known member
Then what if an ordinance is a commandment? Is that "earning" salvation or adding to the work of Christ. Our critics say "yes".
I get what your saying, and I agree with you, but being a Mormon, y'all don't want that. An important part of the anti-Mormon narrative is the painting of evil motives of the Mormons themselves. If you grant them virtuous desires, the narrative false apart.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
We can't earn what we already have. Mormonism contradicts God's word and is a vocal critic of Christians.
Joseph Smith? started a "church" in opposition to Christianity.
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
Joseph Smith—History 1
Joseph Smith tells of his ancestry, family members, and their early abodes—An unusual excitement about religion prevails in western New York—He determines to seek wisdom as directed by James—The Father and the Son appear, and Joseph is called to his prophetic ministry. (Verses 1–20.)
www.churchofjesuschrist.org
I prayed with tears to know God and His will and He directed me to read Hebrews 1:1 and Proverbs 3:5-6.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
No, that's a devious statement that Mormons use when talking to Christians. Resurrection to immortality in a lower kingdom without the Trinity is not salvation; it is anti-biblical.
General salvation comes regardless of obedience to gospel principles or laws and results solely in resurrection from the dead. In this respect, salvation is synonymous with immortality, in that the resurrected person will live forever. Resurrection comes to every person born into this world through the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ, whether one confesses Christ or not. Whether a person is wicked or righteous, each person will receive the gift of immortality through Jesus Christ...
The true value of the sacrifice of Christ means much more than this general salvation which comes to all mankind. There is an additional salvation that God has planned for his children. This additional salvation is an individual salvation and is conditioned not only upon grace, but also upon obedience to gospel law.
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Assistant to the Council of the Twelve
Janice Bower
Well-known member
There aren't any Christians who haven't been saved; the only Christians who are convicts are those who came to Christ in prison or those who who were wrongly convicted.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
That kind of theology is the product of fantasies. As I said, it's pretty obvious that we don't have eternal life at this point. Immorality, we have. eternal life is another thing altogether.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
No. That's a factual statement and aligns with our doctrine. The fact that you claim not to know it makes me question your claims about being a member of the church. You might have been, but it seems to me that you missed a lot.
No one said it was.
This is true. We have all be saved from the grave. Do you question that? Do you know of any scripture which indicates any who will not be resurrected that have been born into mortality? Do you know of anyone who accomplished that task based on their own merits besides Christ?
I'll point out one more thing here. If it hadn't been for Christ, we would have ended up the same as those who followed Lucifer, no resurrection, eternally without a body, but worse off because we, unlike them, had the experience of having a body.
Everyone was saved from the grave. Period.
And again, this is a factual statement. I'm not sure what your issue with it is. Do those of your ilk not believe in the resurrection?
It seems to me it would be a no-brainer that if everyone was resurrected, that there must be a condition that separates the damned, those who are resurrected by not saved, from those who have been resurrected to life. It also seems to me that that value comes because of the sacrifice of Christ. It bewilders me that this has to be explained to our critics.
This is what the Bible teaches. What part of this do you disagree with?
brotherofJared
Well-known member
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Your comments are Mormon teachings that contradict the Bible. Mormons don't believe the Bible, but Christ set me free. I keep reading the Bible and I believe it.
Christians have eternal life. It belongs to us.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
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dberrie2020
Super Member
dberrie2020 said: Jesus has already purchased salvation for all mankind, through His Atonement and resurrection--as a free gift to all:
Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
What do you consider as "devious" about Romans5:18?
Janice--Romans5:18 is a Christian doctrine. It's not a devious trick played out by the LDS--it's the gospel. Jesus Christ's Atonement and Resurrection made eternal life possible for all men, and without it--eternal life isn't possible. It was the great Redemption of mankind from the condemnation all men suffered from the Fall, and the opening of the doors of eternal life for all men--as an opportunity for personal salvation in eternal life for all men--as a free gift.
Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
What do you consider as "devious" about Romans5:18?
Janice--Romans5:18 is a Christian doctrine. It's not a devious trick played out by the LDS--it's the gospel. Jesus Christ's Atonement and Resurrection made eternal life possible for all men, and without it--eternal life isn't possible. It was the great Redemption of mankind from the condemnation all men suffered from the Fall, and the opening of the doors of eternal life for all men--as an opportunity for personal salvation in eternal life for all men--as a free gift.
dberrie2020
Super Member
The Atonement and Resurrection set all men free:
Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
That doesn't separate the heathen from the Christian. It was a free gift to all men. "came upon"--past tense. Finished when Jesus Christ finished it--not when anyone adds their faith to it. Jesus Christ plus nothing. Done. Over. Nailed to the cross.
The critics here seem to think they have to do something for that, but it was finished before any critic here even has a chance to add anything to it.
John 19:30--King James Version
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Aaron32
Well-known member
We have justification, sanctification is still a work in progress.
I disagree, Christ restored a Church in opposition to priestcraft.
Thank you for illustrating my point.
I don't see anywhere Christianity is made the enemy, unless Christianity endorses corruption.
Good. I'm glad you received answers. No please respect the answers others have received. I can't speak for anyone else, but those scriptures are congruent with my beliefs, and congruent with Mormonism.