Debate: Trent Horn vs Steve Christie (Marian dogmas)

[4Him]

Defend the Immaculate conception. That is one of their favorites. It has already been defended, but any defense we offer is rejected.

The immaculate conception is about Jesus, not Mary.

 

[Bonnie]

They are discerned from scripture. And scripture alone isn't the final authority for the Christian faith. So no the issue hasn't been settled.

Yes, Scripture alone is the final authority for Christian faith. NOT "the precepts of men." And the Marian dogmas are ALL the "precepts of men" except for her being a virgin when she conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

I have to disagree with you. I love Catholics because Gods Word tells me to. God doesn't love me anymore than He loves you. I love Catholics enough to tell them the Truth of Gods Word.

Except you aren't telling me the Truth of God's Word. You are telling me YOUR truth. You are telling me what YOU believe God's Word teaches and says.

Most are on their way to hell and they don't even know it. I was one of them until God removed the blinders from my eyes and set me free from the bondage I was under as a devout Roman Catholic. If you saw one in a house that was burning down wouldn't your desire be to save them. That's how I feel about Catholics. So its a lie to assume many Christians have hatred in their hearts towards Catholics. If that is true they will not see heaven and need to repent for they have committed murder in their hearts.

You are assuming that the RCC is the Church that is the one on fire and that the people in the Church need saved. From my perspective, it is Protestant churches that are on fire.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Except you aren't telling me the Truth of God's Word. You are telling me YOUR truth. You are telling me what YOU believe God's Word teaches and says.



You are assuming that the RCC is the Church that is the one on fire and that the people in the Church need saved. From my perspective, it is Protestant churches that are on fire.

I am telling you the truth of Gods Word but you have been blinded and hoodwinked by the deceiver the devil. I am not assuming it. I know it by the fruits the RCC bears. I speak from decades being a Roman Catholic and realize how deceived I was.

 

[pilgrim]

I am telling you the truth of Gods Word but you have been blinded and hoodwinked by the deceiver the devil. I am not assuming it. I know it by the fruits the RCC bears. I speak from decades being a Roman Catholic and realize how deceived I was.

The word "devil" can be translated as "to divide". Wherever we see division in Christianity, the devil had a role in it.

You have been divided from the Church. You have been blinded and hoodwinked yourself.

Jesus prayed for unity:

John 17: 20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,

 

[4Him]

The word "devil" can be translated as "to divide". Wherever we see division in Christianity, the devil had a role in it.

You have been divided from the Church.

Catholic propaganda nonsense....no such thing as a born again christian divided from His church.

Jesus prayed for unity:

John 17: 20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,

Christians are unified IN Christ.....not in your apostate church.

 

[Theo1689]

So you don't agree with Peter.

1 Peter 3:15

But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

He rejects the authoritty and command of the "Pope".

 

[pilgrim]

Catholic propaganda nonsense....no such thing as a born again christian divided from His church.


Christians are unified IN Christ.....not in your apostate church.

This is clearly not true. Christianity is more divided than ever.

 

[4Him]

This is clearly not true.

Yes, in fact it is....Christ abides in each and every believer born from above and our unity is IN Him, not ANY religious organization.

That you don't understand this speaks volumes.

Christianity is more divided than ever.

Not all that claim the name Christian, are.

I can give you a list of many denominations that claim the name, yet aren't remotely in Christ.

 

[Theo1689]

It only works when you twist them, for example "Faith Alone". If you take scripture at face value you'll end up believing lots of crazy ideas.

So you think God was an incompetent Communicator.
So you think Jesus was a fool for telling people to "search the Scriptures".
So you think Luke was wrong for calling the Bereans "noble".
So you think Paul was wrong for commending the Scriptures to Timothy.

You have to reject and attack Scripture to defend Romanism.
Got it.

That's why we need to ask the Holy Spirit to guide us individually through all of scripture

And when we do that, you accuse us (well, the Holy Spirit, really) of "crazy ideas".

so we can define scripture according to our feelings, which may change over time.

Feelings don't make Scripture change.
Stop making excuses to reject Scripture.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

I am telling you the truth of Gods Word but you have been blinded and hoodwinked by the deceiver the devil.

That is your opinion.

I am not assuming it.

Yes, you are. You are giving me nothing but your personal opinions about the Bible and what it teaches. Those opinions are based on the opinions of others that you have been taught.

I know it by the fruits the RCC bears. I speak from decades being a Roman Catholic and realize how deceived I was.

So you appeal to your subjective experience from being a Roman Catholic and that is supposed to be evidence that you understand Catholicism? Your experience is not relevant. I could point to hundreds of Protestant converts who would say the same thing about Protestantism.

Heck--though I am not technically a "convert" to Catholicism, I was raised both Catholic and Protestant. Do you care about my experience with Protestantism? I played the organ in many a Protestant church. There also, I can speak to my experience. Do you care? NO. So I do not care about your experience with Catholicism. It isn't relevant to this discussion and it proves nothing.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Catholic propaganda nonsense....no such thing as a born again Christian divided from His church.

Then why all the sects teaching mutually opposing doctrines?

Let me anticipate your response: "Irrelevant. These boards aren't to debate my Faith, they are to debate Catholicism."

And that may be true, but it is also highly convenient.

Christians are unified IN Christ.....not in your apostate church.

Again, then why do these Christians teach mutually opposing doctrines?

Oh wait---"Irrelevant" right?

 

[4Him]

Then why all the sects teaching mutually opposing doctrines?

They ALL aren't.

Let me anticipate your response: "Irrelevant. These boards aren't to debate my Faith, they are to debate Catholicism."

That is exactly correct....you can discuss 'all the other sects' in the appropriate forum.

Again, then why do these Christians teach mutually opposing doctrines?

Maybe because so many make up their own doctrines rather than follow the Scriptures like your apostate church does.

 

[pilgrim]

Yes, in fact it is....Christ abides in each and every believer born from above and our unity is IN Him, not ANY religious organization.

That you don't understand this speaks volumes.


Not all that claim the name Christian, are.

I can give you a list of many denominations that claim the name, yet aren't remotely in Christ.

Our unity is supposed to be with each other as well.
"I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one"

 

[mica]

Our unity is supposed to be with each other as well.
"I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one"

who was He speaking about?

 

[4Him]

Our unity is supposed to be with each other as well.

There were disagreements even when Paul walked this earth......yet all those born from above were still united IN HIM.

"I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one"

Why do you assume that doesn't mean united IN HIM? The body of Christ is ONE in Him. Always has been, always will be.

 

[Stella1000]

Scripture didn't exalt Mary. Scripture is about her SON, not her.

She is above no one.

We view conceiving and carrying the child of God in her womb, differently. I cannot regard that as anything less than God exalting this woman above all others.

Idiocy. We go no further than what Scripture says of her.

Idiocy? Nasty.

 

[Nondenom40]

We view conceiving and carrying the child of God in her womb, differently. I cannot regard that as anything less than God exalting this woman above all others.



Idiocy? Nasty.

I cannot regard that as anything less than God exalting this woman above all others.

And all you have to do is prove that and you might have a point. She is blessed among women not above them. Unless you have that verse too?

 

[Stella1000]

And all you have to do is prove that and you might have a point. She is blessed among women not above them. Unless you have that verse too?

As I've said, we read and interpret the encounter very differently. And I assure you it is not the Church forcing me to believe, it is the Scripture itself.

Luke 1 39 In those days Mary set out and went with haste to a Judean town in the hill country, 40 where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me? 44 For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.”

Imagine being there as an observer of this event! My own heart nearly jumps from my chest when I witness this blessed woman with the blessed child in her womb coming up to her cousins front door.

 

[4Him]

We view conceiving and carrying the child of God in her womb, differently.

Scripture doesn't.

I cannot regard that as anything less than God exalting this woman above all others.

Then you believe unbiblical nonsense about Mary. Mary is ABOVE no one.

God has blessed MANY saints with the blessing of carrying out His will. Mary is no different.

Idiocy? Nasty.

That you think your comment wasn't nasty towards non Catholics speaks volumes.

Stella1000 said:
Most Protestants I've encountered here try so hard to rip her from the womb of the salvation scripture.

Physician heal thyself.

Yes the way Catholics have made a caricature out of the Mary of the bible is indeed nasty, as is the lies Catholics spew about what non Catholics believe about the obedient, Jewish woman that was blessed to bear the Messiah.