Did God know before the world began WHO WOULD BELIEVE, and WHO WOULD NOT BELIEVE?????

[Howie]

Enjoy where it takes you, I'm off the bus now at the last stop.

Thanks

So your intention in the OP really had nothing to do with Omniscience but another doctrine that you just brought up out of left field.

You need to climb out of your "systematic." The OP is clear, and it is filled with endless discussion possibilities.

And you are right its " your " OP and you are not staying on topic.

Oh the irony.

Thanks anyways.

I've triggered you again. Forgive me.

 

[guest1]

Thanks


You need to climb out of your "systematic." The OP is clear, and it is filled with endless discussion possibilities.


I've triggered you again. Forgive me.

No don't flatter yourself I was just pointing out the obvious.

I can have this discussion and been doing so for years on CARM. Nothing new under the sun here.

 

[Howie]

No don't flatter yourself I was just pointing out the obvious.

You seem very angry. As I recall, that's not a fruit of the Spirit, is it?

This isn't a competition, you know?

I can have this discussion and been doing so for years on CARM. Nothing new under the sun here.

Ok

 

[guest1]

You seem very angry. As I recall, that's not a fruit of the Spirit, is it?

This isn't a competition, you know?

Ok

Angry lol. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself this morning on the forum. I'm at peace and filled with joy.

Are you projecting again ?

 

[Howie]

Angry lol. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself this morning on the forum. I'm at peace and filled with joy.

Ok

Are you projecting again ?

I never project.

Again, this isn't a competition.

 

[Reformedguy]

Thanks


You need to climb out of your "systematic." The OP is clear, and it is filled with endless discussion possibilities.


I've triggered you again. Forgive me.

It's actually one of my favorite topics. God's omniscience and it's logical implications

 

[Howie]

It's actually one of my favorite topics. God's omniscience and it's logical implications

Yes. Many here seem to shy away from using their God-given reason and logic. It's as though they are superstitous, which a Christian should not be.

 

[guest1]

It's actually one of my favorite topics. God's omniscience and it's logical implications

ditto

 

[fltom]

Thanks, Tom.

Do you believe the proclamation of the Gospel is primarily directed toward those sinners God knows will believe, even though those proclaiming the Gospel have no idea who those sinners chosen before the foundation of the world are?

I think the gospel is to go out to all which means it will be preached even to those who will never believe

 

[guest1]

I think the gospel is to go out to all which means it will be preached even to those who will never believe

Amen

 

[Howie]

I think the gospel is to go out to all which means it will be preached even to those who will never believe

Agreed. Thanks.

 

[David1701]

Did He.? ?

Yes, because God knew to whom he was going to give faith.

 

[Howie]

Yes, because God knew to whom he was going to give faith.

Amen.

 

[fltom]

Agreed. Thanks.

Well we agree on one thing

 

[fltom]

Yes, because God knew to whom he was going to give faith.

sorry the phrase "gift of saving faith" does not appear in the bible

and is not taught

 

[fltom]

Amen

It's pretty obvious.

I don't know how one can read the bible and not see that

 

[Sketo]

Did He.? ?

There is only two logical ways God knows who would believe… and only one is biblically justified.

1) God determined his own knowledge.
2) God “learned” his knowledge from an external source.

Logically, before creation existed there was nothing outside of God to “learn” from that could determine his knowledge of what will certainly happen in the timeline of creation.

This means if something other than God determined any part within the timeline of creation then God could not logically know it before he created the “determiner”… unless he learned it from that non-created external source.

If God does know for certain, before creation, and there is nothing outside of God, before creation, then logically God is the determiner of what he knows will certainly happen in the timeline of creation.

The only biblically justified logical opposition to the philosophical view of Open Theism is…

God knows because he Planned, Purposed, and Determined all things that will happen within the timeline of his creation before he brought it into existence.
Therefore Gods “foreknowledge” is God’s exhaustive knowledge of the results of his own actions.

You may assume something other than this view, but you have zero biblical justification to support other than this view.

---

“The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.” (Pro 16:4)
Example: God created Pharaoh for a purpose and the end result of that purpose was not to “save” him!

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”” (Rom 9:17)

“What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—” (Rom 9:22-23)

 

[Theo1689]

There is only two logical ways God knows who would believe… and only one is biblically justified.

1) God determined his own knowledge.
2) God “learned” his knowledge from an external source.

"Has it ever occurred to you that nothing has ever occurred to God?"

 

[Howie]

There is only two logical ways God knows who would believe… and only one is biblically justified.

1) God determined his own knowledge.
2) God “learned” his knowledge from an external source.

Logically, before creation existed there was nothing outside of God to “learn” from that could determine his knowledge of what will certainly happen in the timeline of creation.

This means if something other than God determined any part within the timeline of creation then God could not logically know it before he created the “determiner”… unless he learned it from that non-created external source.

If God does know for certain, before creation, and there is nothing outside of God, before creation, then logically God is the determiner of what he knows will certainly happen in the timeline of creation.

The only biblically justified logical opposition to the philosophical view of Open Theism is…

God knows because he Planned, Purposed, and Determined all things that will happen within the timeline of his creation before he brought it into existence.
Therefore Gods “foreknowledge” is God’s exhaustive knowledge of the results of his own actions.

You may assume something other than this view, but you have zero biblical justification to support other than this view.

---

“The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.” (Pro 16:4)
Example: God created Pharaoh for a purpose and the end result of that purpose was not to “save” him!

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”” (Rom 9:17)

“What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—” (Rom 9:22-23)

Yes or no?

 

[Sketo]

I think the gospel is to go out to all which means it will be preached even to those who will never believe

I assume you believe God knew “those who will never believe” before he created them…

… so the question is what was his Ultimate Purpose in creating those he knew for certain “will never believe”?

My emphasis is on Gods deliberate act of creating them… not on God merely knowing the end results of his action.