2 Corinthians 4:16Yes:the new is here;the old is dead.
16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
2 Corinthians 4:16Yes:the new is here;the old is dead.
We don't do a lot of things the same way.as we don't interpret that verse the same way
just answer the question
The passage answers the question. Why should I use my words? If they fall away it is impossible to renew them to repentance.Is it possible for the Elect unto Salvation not be saved?
That is a strange question...It appears that you are not reading my posts. Where in the scripture did God call anyone to be a catholic?Are you Catholic?
Those who are predestined will be saved
Those who are elect will be saved.
Yes it is.
You cannot re-crucify Jesus over and over.
Just because you view it that way does not mean it is that way. The ultimate Goal of salvation is to endure to the end and attain eternal life.I view salvation as a process with it’s ultimate goal being that we are transformed into the image of Christ.
Are you not familiar with this passage...Heb:6Kindly explain how Christ we crucified re-crucified rover and over again if salvation is a process and not a one time event
Just because you view it that way does not mean it is that way.
The ultimate goal of salvation is to endure to the end and attain eternal life.
Are you not familiar with this passage?
Hebrew 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
A person cannot sin in Christ all sin takes place outside of Christ.
That means when a believer sins they would have already fallen away from Christ.
They cannot go back to the place of justification and baptism and receive the Holy Spirit.
They require the blood of Jesus to be cleansed but they would have already tarnished his name
To be clear, I think Paul taught faith and moral living (aka good works) VERSUS faith and works-of-the-Mosaic-Law (Aka Judaism).
I’m sorry you feel that way. I agree with the overall sentiment of what you have posted except for these two points of disagreement. Your uninformed opinion of us and erroneous belief that Paul taught salvation by faith alone.
To my understanding, the temple is less about salvation (justification) and more about exaltation (sanctification).@Mesenja
With regards to LDS (or any religion for that matter), the slippery slope is inventing new rituals because the tendency of human nature is to gradually make them necessary for salvation (i.e., “commands”) as each sect wants to distinguish themselves from other sects. The LDS Temple rituals was only an example of how works of the flesh may begin harmlessly as a unifying, edifying ritual for a community TO become a wedge between the saved versus the unsaved just as the Jews did with Gentiles (Catholics versus Protestants, etc.). Paul dispelled any works of the flesh, specifically, ritual purity, as having any efficacy for salvation once before when he opposed Jewish particularism and that will never change, no matter what your prophet commands or says God commands.
As long as it's within the dictates of your conscience - no judgment here. (11th Article of Faith)BTW, I actually have fond memories of my LDS friends (I was once a member), so many things I find good in the LDS. But I could not drink ALL the Kool-Aid so it was awkward for me to remain a member. I am not good at faking belief so now I walk to to my own beat.Ha ha!
If I recall correctly exaltation to the highest heaven requires certain LDS Temple rituals. How is that different than Judaism requiring Temple rituals to earn whatever reward they expect?To my understanding, the temple is less about salvation (justification) and more about exaltation (sanctification).
?As long as it's within the dictates of your conscience - no judgment here. (11th Article of Faith)
Is it possible for the Elect unto Salvation not be saved?
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2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
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That is in Christ.
So tell me how is it possible to sin while you are abiding in Christ?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but temple rituals in Judaism were an annual event. They did so to cleanse themselves of sin, right?If I recall correctly exaltation to the highest heaven requires certain LDS Temple rituals. How is that different than Judaism requiring Temple rituals to earn whatever reward they expect?
Because they believe God commanded them to.The underlying premise remains the same: specified works of the flesh (i.e. rituals held to be sacrosanct) are necessary to receive the highest rewards in heaven. Each religious sect claims their rituals have efficacy for some heavenly reward.
So if Paul suffered great personal hardship for repudiating Jewish particularism based on outward rituals (ie the Mosaic Law) why would any sect of Christianity think their own outward rituals garner favor with God?
What do you mean "didn't work"?If it didn’t work for the national Jews then why would it work for the Gentiles?
Well, that goes back the "one true Church" topic, but I can appreciate your sentiment.IMO, there is no religious ritual that earns any favor with God. Exaltation, salvation, glorification, etc. solely rests on one’s faith in the cosmic Savior (belief in God’s providence) and a moral consciousness (aka good works), anytime, anywhere, any person. No religion, nation, sect, race, sex, economic status, or education level has a monopoly on God’s grace and/or rewards.
And yet, Jesus said:That is why Christianity is arguably a universal religion. It is a religion for all people, all humanity, for all time.
You dodged the question...Is is possible for you to sin while you are in Christ?
I read once that two-thirds of the 620+ Commands in the Mosaic Law pertain to the Jewish Temple, so Temple rituals heavily influenced Jewish religious life.Correct me if I'm wrong, but temple rituals in Judaism were an annual event. They did so to cleanse themselves of sin, right?
That's not much different from LDS partaking of the sacrament on a weekly basis.
However, LDS Temple Ordinances are only performed once for an individual.
Exactly. Therein lies the source of all the conflict. How does Isaiah, the Teacher of Righteousness, Paul/Jesus, abrogate a command of God explicitly written in the scripture? How can any human on earth ignore, as you say, what they believe God has commanded? It is essentially why Paul was such a polarizing figure, he had essentially rejected all ritual requirements commanded by God in the Mosaic Law. The Pharisees hated him for it. But those who believed Paul as a revelatory teacher saw what he was doing. He was not rejecting the Law, he was allegorizing it for its spiritual meaning (Gal 4:24). The symbolism in the narrative and the rituals commanded by God pertain to heavenly/celestial events or truths having efficacy for eternal life, for glorification, for pleasing God.Because they believe God commanded them to.
<snip>
I read once that two-thirds of the 620+ Commands in the Mosaic Law pertain to the Jewish Temple, so Temple rituals heavily influenced Jewish religious life.
But the point was that outward rituals,no matter what religion they come from,are merely symbolic in value. There is zero efficacy for obtaining eternal life (or exaltation,sanctification,glorification) by outward physical rituals or works of the flesh. That is the essence of Paul’s teaching commonly referred to as
“faith versus works”…of the Mosaic Law,of the flesh,of the religiously inclined,of any and all outward rituals invented or held by any or all religious sects past, present,and future, etc.
Rituals of any religion become a slippery slope,especially Judaism, as the priests administering them erroneously apply some spiritual efficacy,e.g., for eternal life,for exaltation,for pleasing God,for entering the “promised land“, — to what are merely works of the flesh having no impact on the spiritual world. At best,the rituals of the flesh hold symbolic value.
Exactly. Therein lies the source of all the conflict. How does Isaiah,the Teacher of Righteousness,Paul/Jesus, abrogate a command of God explicitly written in the scripture? How can any human on earth ignore, as you say,what they believe God has commanded? It is essentially why Paul was such a polarizing figure,he had essentially rejected all ritual requirements commanded by God in the Mosaic Law. The Pharisees hated him for it. But those who believed Paul as a revelatory teacher saw what he was doing. He was not rejecting the Law,he was allegorizing it for its spiritual meaning (Galatians 4:24). The symbolism in the narrative and the rituals commanded by God pertain to heavenly/celestial events or truths having efficacy for eternal life,for glorification, for pleasing God.
How did Paul arrive at that conclusion? Because there are two principles at work in creation,immanent within “the God Most High.” Just as there are two creations:the old,and the new;the material and the spiritual;the flesh and the spirit;there is also the ”god of this [material] age” (2 Corinthians 4:4) who imposes works of the flesh for absolution and the Holy Spirit who grants a moral consciousness (“the Law written on our hearts”) revealing the spiritual meaning of the outward rituals which pertain to his spiritual kingdom that is to come,(and already arising within us). Fulfill,the former requirements, ie.,the works of the flesh,and you merely please the “god of this age”,which is temporary,imperfect,and coming to an end,BUT fulfill the latter requirements of a moral consciousness by the Spirit,and please the one who rules the spiritual world which is eternal,perfect,and coming as promised to pious, virtuous souls.
Paul could see the greater picture, worlds unending, whereas, weaker consciouses, could not. They could only perceive the material world that we live in and were inclined to hold onto the commands they believed the God of this age commanded them to do.
Therein lies the source of the conflict. Therein lies the dividing line between those who hated Paul and those who loved Paul for what he taught. And here we are two thousand years later trying to understand what he wrote: “faith versus works of the Law.”
You posted all have sinned I just showed you that believers were purged from their old sins. You cannot be abiding in Christ with sin.
More dodges you seem afraid to say yes or no. Can a person sin while they are abiding in Christ, Yes or No...?John 15:7-9
7 If ye abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is My Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be My disciples.
9 “As the Father hath loved Me, so have I loved you. Continue ye in My love.
to remain stable or fixed in a state a love that abided with him all his days. 2 : to continue in a place : sojourn will abide in the house of the Lord. Miriam Webster Dictionary
Ephesians 2:8,9 makes it clear that Salvation IS NOT through "Works",but by FAITH (gifted by God since humans can't generate Biblical FAITH on their own).
One who has been Born AGain by FAITH,
has also been indwelled by the Holy Spirit, who joins with their human spirit, and provides the impetus for Romans 8:28,29 -
i.e. All things work TOGETHER for the good of the person, and that "Good" is defined as "Conforming one to the IMAGE of Jesus".
The LAW is there as big as life, BUT the Born Again Christian has already been judged by it and their "old Man" has been nailed to the cross along with Jesus (Galatians 2:20).
The law has no effect on a dead person.
HOWEVER THE LAW remains eternally as the Will of God for humans, and since the Born Again human is indwelled by the Holy Spirit, naturally their tendency will be toward living according to the law (imperfectly, since we're still human), but with a constant trend toward better performing God's will in life.
(Sanctification is a PROCESS that works in us as long as we live).