Jewjitzu
Well-known member
That's fine. It's clear Jesus isn't who or what you think he is. It's not the first time you run away...
John 5:19 - Is Jesus limited to what the Father does?
- Thread starter Jewjitzu
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Biblican
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You don't understand how it works. The Father does not have a duel nature. Jesus was begotten from the Father before His incarnation as God's image or representative. God unified Himself with His image by His Spirit making them one. Jesus' person/soul is distinct from the Father and the Father operates in His image through His Spirit which is in His image because nothing is impossible to Him. That is the spiritual science behind it.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
God doesn't have a human nature. Start there.
Correct. He is only God.
God created man in His image. Jesus being begotten shows he was created and dependent on another which God isn't.
So your idea of god is created, has parts.
Then he isn't the God.
Impossible? God isn't created, but Jesus was.
Your science is messed up.
Biblican
Well-known member
Jesus was not created, He was begotten. Birthed. Anyone who is birthed must come from a pre-existing substance. In other words, Jesus was not created out of nothing, His soul was birthed directly from the Father's substance which is Spirit This distinguishes Jesus from the angels who were created from nothing. Jesus was begotten to be the Father's image and representative. Jesus' soul/person is always subordinate to the Father's soul which is uncreated. However, Jesus' Spirit is the Father's Spirit and this is where HIs divinity is found.
Biblican
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God is unified with Jesus, God Himself is one Spirit and He also says He has a soul in scripture. Being unified with Jesus does not make God have parts.
CrowCross
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Not quite, in a sense yes....They physical body of Jesus, flesh, bones, blood etc. could have been said to have been created...an off spring of Adam who was created...just like you and me were created.
BUT,
The Word who was God and with God that became flesh, He was not created. As God was not created and always was and never was the Word wasn't.
Biblican
Well-known member
Jesus is not God the Father. He is "God" because HIs Spirit is God's Spirit, but His soul is begotten and distinct. If you study the New Testament you will see that when the writers use the word God they are referring to the Father. When the use the word Lord they are referring to Jesus. The Apostle Paul says, to us there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Messiah. When Jesus' work is finished then He will go back into the Father.
CrowCross
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The Word that became flesh....aka, the pre-incarnate Christ Jesus was not created.
Biblican
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Correct. Again, God is not created, Jesus was begotten or birthed from the Father to be His image and not created from nothing. The orthodox doctrine is that Jesus had a beginning at some point in infinity. This is why His soul is always subordinate to the Father in scripture. God did not beget a second god but the perfect image of Himself to represent Him.
Biblican
Well-known member
Jesus was begotten from the Father prior to His incarnation. That is the orthodox doctrine of the church that has been eroded. By the third and fourth councils you had to believe that Jesus was twice begotten, once prior to His incarnation and then again through Mary. If you didn't believe that you were considered to be cursed. If Jesus was not begotten and always pre-existed then you don't have a Father and Son, you have two co-eternal gods and that is polytheism. The early church recognized this fact. Jesus was not created, He was begotten, birthed. Any one who is birthed must come from a pre-existing substance. Jesus was birthed from the Father's substance which is Spirit and not created out of nothing as were the angels. God created everything through HIs Son including the angels.
Biblican
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My science is scripture, that's where it comes from.
Biblican
Well-known member
I want to clarify something. It was Jesus' person/soul that was begotten. His Spirit is and always was God's Holy Spirit. In order for Him to take our sins upon His soul, it would have to be a distinct begotten entity from the Father.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
And all physical substance is created.... and so on. Begotten, birthed, isn't an eternal quality.
See above. You're admitting he's created.
Zero support for this.
Then Jesus isn't God.
No. Being created isn't the same God.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Doesn't look like it.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Man is in God's image too. Jesus is nothing special.
And any point before that shows he's not eternal.
Not really. He didn't want to die.
A perfect image doesn't die or have physicality.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Sorry, but Jesus and the NT admit he was limited and not God.
Rotfl... into the Father? You prove again Jesus is created, has parts, and less than God.
CrowCross
Well-known member
Jesus' Spirit was not the Holy Spirit but was the Word....the Word who was with God and who was God.
The Word (pre-incarnate Jesus) and the Holy Spirit are two different persons of the Godhead.
Jewjitzu
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CrowCross
Well-known member
Jesus speaking......“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Rotfl... you can't even address Tanakh.
Exodus 3:14 is speaking about Moses being sent by God. Jesus is saying the same thing with regards to himself.
Before there was a day, I am He.