Sufficient for all Efficient for some Fallacy !

Whats funny is God blessed Esau with wealth and land. :)

So much for God "hating " Esau as some believe lol.

God blesses EVERYONE with many things.
That doesn't nullify the BIBLICAL FACT that God hates some, including Esau and "workers of iniquity" (Ps. 5:5).

But as usual, heretics use empty philosophy and rationalization to deny the Bible.

And hate means love less, to esteem one above another in Romans 9. :)

No, it doesn't.
Check ANY lexicon.
It means "detest".

hope this helps !!!

It never does.
 
Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved you.Not the faith I gave you healed you.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

See Barnes

The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:

1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.

2. All people were in a hopeless condition.

3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.

4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.

5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.

That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.


Calvin on John 3:16
For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish. And this order ought to be carefully observed; for such is the wicked ambition which belongs to our nature, that when the question relates to the origin of our salvation, we quickly form diabolical imaginations about our own merits.

hope this helps !!!
 
So being elect/chosen does not equate to salvation. That is just another misnomer and theological assumption made by many.

I don't know ANYONE who believes "elect" means "salvation".
So why do you feel the need to MISREPRESENT Calvinists?

Are you intentionally misrepresenting us, or have you been woefully ignorant of Calvinism "for over 4 decades"?

hope this helps !!!

It never does.
 
for Me it's a question of who specifically Messiah came and died for


I would need Calvinists to explain exactly when they were Saved

...some might not consider me completely or at all a fellow Calvinist
Good question I'm hoping you get a direct answer. I know thew biblical answer. :)
 
The solas are an illusion not a reality . But I don’t want these side discussions to distract us from the purpose of the atonement. As you noted the uni argument is only a distraction .
Thank you. Flaming accusations are a distraction. You may not agree he was Flaming, but a small distraction leads to a major divertment...

If you want your Thread to be all it can be...
 
The " I " in tulip causes regeneration unbeknownst to the one who was elect/chosen. They are dead and must receive life prior to belief. Calvinism 101.

No, BIBLE 101.

You can't deny Biblical truths by simply labelling them "Calvinism".

Its backwards and just the opposite of what Jesus taught.

No, it's PRECISELY what Jesus taught.

Belief precedes life in the bible.

And all the Calvinists said, "Amen"!

Regeneration precedes faith.
And faith precedes eternal life.

You keep conflating "regeneration" with "eternal life".
They are NOT the same thing.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Did you notice Jesus' denial of "free will" in that verse?
Btw, why did you refuse to identify the translation you were using (NIV)?
It appears you are "translation shopping", as most translations do NOT render it "husband's will", but "man's will".

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

That's what Calvinists believe.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.

... which is what Calvinists believe.

Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

... which is what Calvinists believe.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

... which is what Calvinists believe.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

... which is what Calvinists believe.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

Calvinists believe EVERY Scripture you posted.
Go figure.

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life

With the exception of you errantly adding "new birth" at the end, the rest of your order is 100% correct.

I'll give you an A-.
Do better.

hope this helps !!!

It never does.
 
Thank you. Flaming accusations are a distraction. You may not agree he was Flaming, but a small distraction leads to a major divertment...

If you want your Thread to be all it can be...
I’ll check in later off to the golf ⛳️ course with my brother for a 10am shotgun start :)
 
Here in Britain we use clubs to tee off, but I know the Americans are crazy about guns, so any chance to use them I guess.
They call it a shotgun when every hole ?️ has a group on the tee box . So I might start off on hole number 5 or 18. We find out once we arrive . So everyone starts at the same time on all 18 holes hence the term shotgun
 
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