Sufficient for all Efficient for some Fallacy !

[Rockson]

You demonstrate your bankruptcy when you make false statements and try to apply them to the "lurkers", presuming to falsely claim what they allegely think.

One can notice however that I said the words MIGHT genuinely wonder. I never claimed as an absolute what they think but my guess is that I'm right. I'll let readers and lurkers decide.

Your opinion is WORTHLESS.

I wasn't presumptuous in thinking you'd feel it had any value anyway. I'm content that others may not share your view. Peace and God Bless!

 

[LeeH]

I'd tell you you're leaving an impression that a Calvinist can't take even the slightest challenge to their beliefs without becoming emotionally distraught. How can you even dream up that someone is harassing you?

The Calvinist should expect for their doctrines to be tested to the extreme, if they are true, they have nothing to get flustered or frustrated by.

How is that even possible when you can put someone on ignore?

Ignore works for me.

 

[Rockson]

You don't get to decide who God loves or hates.

The greater point is you get to decide what is favoritism and what is one showing partiality. If you can't then there's NO WAY one could obey the scripture and not show any of it. God has told us we're to follow his example. How in the world can one possibly do that IF nothing we know of as favoritism doesn't apply to him? Your Calvinism places one in the dark as to just what God's moral character is. That was never the way with Jesus. He came to reveal the Father and his character and did. God shows no favorites. Let's not embrace a doctrine saying he does.

 

[Howie]

Why would God do that if he hated them. You said before God hates sinners. Your teaching really can't answer how God so loved the world applies to anyone.

Oy vey.

 

[Howie]

Then you've lost all arguments you've ever made. You've said God hates sinners because they sin and that's the reason but you're a sinner just as bad (even Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners) but well....he just chooses to LOVE you?

Illustration Time: I can't stand water melon. I find it repulsive. Some sinners are repulsive in his sight (he doesn't love them according to you Theo) they're like water melon....but you're of the same kind. So what are you saying? God is going to LOVE this water melon but not the other? Despite the fact that they're water melon I'm going to LOVE them but that piece here or that piece there NOPE!

Now one might ask God, "But aren't they all the same, aren't they are the same?" YES they are. I'm going to LOVE these ones though and not the other!

That my friends would be a God showing partiality and not using a fair and just standard by which grace would be released.

James 2:8-9 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.

1 Timothy 5:21 I solemnly command you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus and the highest angels to obey these instructions without taking sides or showing favoritism to anyone.

7. Deuteronomy 10:17 For the Lord your God is the God of gods and Lord of lords. He is the great God, the mighty and awesome God, who shows no partiality and cannot be bribed.

So readers what do we see here? Favoritism IS sin! It makes one a lawbreaker. Is this not what Calvinists are saying God is truly doing? Calvinsits ask yourself the question. Is God a lawbreaker? Why favor to some sinners (remember the water melon) and not the others. The Bible says he shows NO PARTIALITY. None! Folks that's GOT to mean something. It's got to mean what it says! If there is no marked difference between why God would LOVE one and not the other what else can that mean except God is showing partiality. Look again at the last verse quoted above....who shows NO, NO partiality.

That therefore set up the image we should have in our spirits and minds about the character of God. I'd say woe to the man who tampers with that image insinuating his moral character is something else except the above. Some Calvinists would protest citing God's sovereignty and I'd say they would be wise to immediately stop what they're doing. ! You just can't jump out of the perimeters of what God has said about his character! His character is what it is because it is morally the BEST. You try to change that you're making him something he is not and in light of the fact that it cost him dearly to reveal the true character of God by sending Jesus (Jesus said he revealed the Father or what God was like) you're going to tamper with that....all I'd have to say is Oh my, oh my, oh my! That's NOT something you really want to do.

Has never read scripture. ^

 

[Synergy]

Then you've lost all arguments you've ever made. You've said God hates sinners because they sin and that's the reason but you're a sinner just as bad (even Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners) but well....he just chooses to LOVE you?

Illustration Time: I can't stand water melon. I find it repulsive. Some sinners are repulsive in his sight (he doesn't love them according to you Theo) they're like water melon....but you're of the same kind. So what are you saying? God is going to LOVE this water melon but not the other? Despite the fact that they're water melon I'm going to LOVE them but that piece here or that piece there NOPE!

Now one might ask God, "But aren't they all the same, aren't they are the same?" YES they are. I'm going to LOVE these ones though and not the other!

That my friends would be a God showing partiality and not using a fair and just standard by which grace would be released.

James 2:8-9 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.

1 Timothy 5:21 I solemnly command you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus and the highest angels to obey these instructions without taking sides or showing favoritism to anyone.

7. Deuteronomy 10:17 For the Lord your God is the God of gods and Lord of lords. He is the great God, the mighty and awesome God, who shows no partiality and cannot be bribed.

So readers what do we see here? Favoritism IS sin! It makes one a lawbreaker. Is this not what Calvinists are saying God is truly doing? Calvinsits ask yourself the question. Is God a lawbreaker? Why favor to some sinners (remember the water melon) and not the others. The Bible says he shows NO PARTIALITY. None! Folks that's GOT to mean something. It's got to mean what it says! If there is no marked difference between why God would LOVE one and not the other what else can that mean except God is showing partiality. Look again at the last verse quoted above....who shows NO, NO partiality.

That therefore set up the image we should have in our spirits and minds about the character of God. I'd say woe to the man who tampers with that image insinuating his moral character is something else except the above. Some Calvinists would protest citing God's sovereignty and I'd say they would be wise to immediately stop what they're doing. ! You just can't jump out of the perimeters of what God has said about his character! His character is what it is because it is morally the BEST. You try to change that you're making him something he is not and in light of the fact that it cost him dearly to reveal the true character of God by sending Jesus (Jesus said he revealed the Father or what God was like) you're going to tamper with that....all I'd have to say is Oh my, oh my, oh my! That's NOT something you really want to do.

You nailed it!

I'm also of the opinion that it's vitally important that we are transformed into the correct image which is the Image of God. It's vital that God's attributes are correctly understood through His Word so one doesn't end up transforming into an incorrect image. That's part of our Predestination. We are predestined to adoption, inheritance, and conformity to the Image of Christ. All three are interesting but I personally find the last one most fascinating. We are images of God Who we worship. By reading His word and emulating Christ we start to reflect His qualities and produce fruits of the Spirit. In the process the Holy Spirit transforms us into a sharper images of God.

Calvinists, on the other hand, have concocted the Total Depravity theory which is the the dehumanization of man, a smashing of the image of God in man, iconoclasm in other words. As such Calvinists have little appreciation of what you're talking about and how important it is in our Predestination path.

Historically, I think that Calvinism was heavily influenced by the iconoclastic spirit that reeked from the south, namely Islam. Both Calvinism and Islam drink from the same iconoclastic spirit.

 

[Howie]

You nailed it!

I'm also of the opinion that it's vitally important that we are transformed into the correct image which is the Image of God. It's vital that God's attributes are correctly understood through His Word so one doesn't end up transforming into an incorrect image. That's part of our Predestination. We are predestined to adoption, inheritance, and conformity to the Image of Christ. All three are interesting but I personally find the last one most fascinating. We are images of God Who we worship. By reading His word and emulating Christ we start to reflect His qualities and produce fruits of the Spirit. In the process the Holy Spirit transforms us into a sharper images of God.

Calvinists, on the other hand, have concocted the Total Depravity theory which is the the dehumanization of man, a smashing of the image of God in man, iconoclasm in other words. As such Calvinists have little appreciation of what you're talking about and how important it is in our Predestination path.

Historically, I think that Calvinism was heavily influenced by the iconoclastic spirit that reeked from the south, namely Islam. Both Calvinism and Islam drink from the same iconoclastic spirit.

FYI, all men are created in the image and likeness of God, and in the Garden Adam fell, plunging the entire human race into sin.

The Chruch is now being "conformed" to the image of Christ.

Also, you would do well to understand what "iconoclasm" means.

 

[Synergy]

FYI, all men are created in the image and likeness of God, and in the Garden Adam fell, plunging the entire human race into sin.

Now that we're "in Christ", we are predestined to be conformed to the Image of God.

Also, you would do well to understand what "iconoclasm" means.

You would do well to understand that you are an image of God and that iconoclasm is a smashing of images, which Calvinism have a great penchant for as evidenced by their Total Depravity (the smashing of the image of God is us) myth.

 

[Howie]

Now that we're "in Christ", we are predestined to be conformed to the Image of God.

Correction: To the image of Christ.

You would do well to understand that you are an image of God and that iconoclasm is a smashing of images, which Calvinism have a great penchant for as evidenced by their Total Depravity (the smashing of the image of God is us) myth.

You would do well to understand that "iconoclasts" smash religious objects and images made with human hands.

You are a butcher of language. That's why your "exegesis" is so atrocious.

 

[preacher4truth]

Welp, I'll be done in this thread. If a certain person wants to make a thread and prove his accusations, well, I'll look it over, but it will probably be the same ol' nothing.

 

[Theo1689]

Then you've lost all arguments you've ever made.

<sigh>
You just prove my point. Anti-Calvinists are so insecure about their beliefs and frustrated that they can't support them Biblically that they feel the need to "proclaim themselves the victors".

Sorry, not allowed to do that.
France can't "proclaim" itself winner of the World Cup.
And you can't "proclaim" yourself winner of any "debate".
That's not how this works.

You've said God hates sinners because they sin and that's the reason

Correct.
So I haven't "lost" any argument.

but you're a sinner just as bad (even Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners) but well....he just chooses to LOVE you?

Correct.
That is what the BIBLE teaches.
So I haven't "lost" any argument.

Just because you don't "like" my theology (appeal to emotionalism) doesn't mean I've "lost".

Illustration Time:

Running away from the Bible time.
You reject the Bible, and resort to worthless rationalizations, and you accuse ME of "losing the argument"?
SERIOUSLY!??!?!?!!?

Some sinners are repulsive in his sight (he doesn't love them according to you Theo)

According to the BIBLE, Rockson.

they're like water melon....but you're of the same kind. So what are you saying? God is going to LOVE this water melon but not the other?

That's what the BIBLE says, yes.
Okay, to use your worthless rationalization, God chooses some watermelon as treats for his family, and chooses other watermelon as targets in his gun range.

You're saying GOD is not ALLOWED to select different sinners for different purposes.
Who are you to tell God what He can or cannot do?!

Despite the fact that they're water melon I'm going to LOVE them but that piece here or that piece there NOPE!

Sorry, but your argument isn't BIblical, so I'm forced to reject it.
It's worthless man-made rationalization.

Now one might ask God, "But aren't they all the same, aren't they are the same?" YES they are. I'm going to LOVE these ones though and not the other!

That's what the BIBLE teaches, yes.
Romans 9.
I'm sorry you hate the Bible.

That my friends would be a God showing partiality and not using a fair and just standard by which grace would be released.

No, it is NOT "God showing partiality", since God's choice of the elect is NOT based on anything in us.

That's why I chose my words precisely, and said:
"God chose the elect DESPITE the fact that they are sinners...", instead of
"God chose the elect BECAUSE they had ....... "

You talk about a "fair and just standard".
That's not Biblical.
God chose one twin and rejected another twin even though they were twins, they were the same, no difference between them. God is ALLOWED to do that.

The potter made two vessels out of the SAME lump of clay (Rom. 9), they were the SAME, yet God made one for honourable use, and another for dishonourable use. God is ALLOWED to do that.

But you hate God, and you hate the Bible, so you use your worthless "rationalizations", and invent a theology of your own imagination where everything is "a fair and just standard", because that's how YOU want it. But you are NOT God.

James 2:8-9 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.

First of all, I wasn't aware that James was writing that to God, to tell God what He can or cannot do.

Secondly, since the elect aren't chosen "because" of anything inherent in them, God is NOT "showing favouritism".

1 Timothy 5:21 I solemnly command you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus and the highest angels to obey these instructions without taking sides or showing favoritism to anyone.

7. Deuteronomy 10:17 For the Lord your God is the God of gods and Lord of lords. He is the great God, the mighty and awesome God, who shows no partiality and cannot be bribed.

Again, since God did not choose the elect because of any quality in them, HE is NOT "showing favouritism" or "partiality".

So readers what do we see here? Favoritism IS sin!

Then I guess it's a good thing that God ISN'T "showing favouritism", isn't it?

Oh, but I forgot! YOUR god is the one who "shows favouritism', since He saves people "with respect to the fact that they believe in Him".

Oops!

It makes one a lawbreaker. Is this not what Calvinists are saying God is truly doing?

Of course not.

Calvinsits ask yourself the question. Is God a lawbreaker?

Thank you for making us look like we're stupid.

Why favor to some sinners (remember the water melon) and not the others. The Bible says he shows NO PARTIALITY. None! Folks that's GOT to mean something. It's got to mean what it says! If there is no marked difference between why God would LOVE one and not the other

Read Romans 9.
Read Eph. 1.

Some Calvinists would protest citing God's sovereignty and I'd say they would be wise to immediately stop what they're doing. !

You are not our Lord.
You don't get to tell us what to do.
You're trying to get us to reject the Bible, like you reject the Bible.

You just can't jump out of the perimeters of what God has said about his character!

I know.
So why do YOU do it?!

His character is what it is because it is morally the BEST. You try to change that you're making him something he is not and in light of the fact that it cost him dearly to reveal the true character of God by sending Jesus (Jesus said he revealed the Father or what God was like) you're going to tamper with that....all I'd have to say is Oh my, oh my, oh my! That's NOT something you really want to do.

You really need to lose your "holier-than-thou" attitude.

 

[Theo1689]

The Calvinist should expect for their doctrines to be tested to the extreme, if they are true, they have nothing to get flustered or frustrated by.

No one is "flustered" or "frustrated", except perhaps you and Rockson.

Why do you feel the need to constantly project negative emotion onto Calvinists?
Is it because you don't have a valid Biblical argument?

You see? There's no reason for Calvinists to be "flustered" or "frustrated".
We've one by forfeit.
You don't have a valid Biblical argument against Calvinism.

Ignore works for me.

Yet you keep posting.

 

[ReverendRV]

Would you consider implying one is a universalist a “ flaming distraction” and a designed distraction ?

I didn't imply; I asked. He has altered his POV so much, that it could still be altering...

 

[Theo1689]

The greater point is you get to decide what is favoritism and what is one showing partiality. If you can't then there's NO WAY one could obey the scripture and not show any of it. God has told us we're to follow his example. How in the world can one possibly do that IF nothing we know of as favoritism doesn't apply to him? Your Calvinism places one in the dark as to just what God's moral character is. That was never the way with Jesus. He came to reveal the Father and his character and did. God shows no favorites. Let's not embrace a doctrine saying he does.

God is not showing any "favouritism" in choosing some parts of the same clay to mold vessels of honour, and other pieces of the same clay to mold vessels of dishonour.

We believe Scripture.
You reject Scripture and believe your own imagination.

Have a nice day!

 

[Leatherneck0311]

I didn't imply; I asked. He has altered his POV so much, that it could still be altering...

You said this in post #6 Are you saying ***versalism is true? There was nothing about universal in the OP. I believe that fits the definition of poisoning the well.

 

[Rockson]

God is not showing any "favouritism" in choosing some parts of the same clay to mold vessels of honour, and other pieces of the same clay to mold vessels of dishonour.

He is if the way he's doing is as Calvinists say. The way he chooses some parts of the clay to be vessels of honor and vessels of dishonors IS NOT however the WAY Calvinists say.

We believe Scripture.

No sir you DO NOT.

 

[Rockson]

No one is "flustered" or "frustrated", except perhaps you and Rockson.

Why do you feel the need to constantly project negative emotion onto Calvinists?

Sorry but I don't believe all Calvinists are like you. I stated many Calvinists would probably tell you to knock it off for you're not helping their cause.

Who is it that keeps lamenting that you're harassed ? You do. So how is that not making sincere people looking for discussion not trying to take away their noble character. Are you not the negative one for doing so?
I trust readers and lurkers would see that you are.

Really though it's obvious why you do what you do. You play the Victim Card anytime one wants to make a rebuttal claiming they're being mean for the reason to shut them up and not have anyone challenge your Calvinism. People will challenge it whether you like it or not and too bad you can't let good conversation go forth without your foolish and ridiculous accusations.

Well time again to put you on ignore. Sorry but your claim of being a Victim is just too much.

 

[Theo1689]

He is if the way he's doing is as Calvinists say.

Bearing false witness is a sin, sir.
You will have to answer to GOD for making the false claims that you do.

You CLEARLY do NOT CARE about God.

The way he chooses some parts of the clay to be vessels of honor and vessels of dishonors IS NOT however the WAY Calvinists say.

Bearing false witness is a sin, sir.
You will have to answer to GOD for making the false claims that you do.

You CLEARLY do NOT CARE about God
.

No sir you DO NOT.

Bearing false witness is a SIN.

YOU.
NEED.
TO.
REPENT.

NOW!!!!!!


May GOD have MERCY on your SOUL, sir!
For you are in HIGH danger of CONDEMNATION of eternral hell!

 

[Theo1689]

Sorry but I don't believe all Calvinists are like you. I

I don't care about the LIES you make about Calvinists.

stated many Calvinists would probably tell you to knock it off for you're not helping their cause.

Bearing false witness is a SIN!

You need to REPENT!

Who is it that keeps lamenting that you're harassed ? You do. So how is that not making sincere people looking for discussion not trying to take away their noble character. Are you not the negative one for doing so?

No.
YOU are the one who keeps SINNING against God, and ATTACKING Christians, simply becuase they disagree wtih your ERRANT and SINFUL opinion.

YOU.
NEED.
TO.
REPENT.

I trust readers and lurkers would see that you are.

Lurkers will CLEARLY see that YOU are the attacker here, sir.

Really though it's obvious why you do what you do. You play the Victim Card anytime one wants to make a rebuttal claiming they're being mean for the reason to shut them up and not have anyone

YOU are the one constantly ATTACKING Calvinists.
Simply because we disagree with your (errant) OPINION.

challenge your Calvinism. People will challenge it whether you like it or not and too bad you can't let good conversation go forth without your foolish and ridiculous accusations.

May GOD.

Have MERCY.

ON.
YOUR.
SOUL.

\Well time again to put you on ignore. Sorry but your claim of being a Victim is just too much.

The lurkers know very well now much of a LIE that is.

 

[Rockson]

You nailed it!

What you said in the next quote does the same in a way I'd never really thought about.

I'm also of the opinion that it's vitally important that we are transformed into the correct image which is the Image of God. It's vital that God's attributes are correctly understood through His Word so one doesn't end up transforming into an incorrect image. That's part of our Predestination. We are predestined to adoption, inheritance, and conformity to the Image of Christ.

It's ironic that Calvinists talk a lot about the word predestined but we're predestined to the image of Christ which includes character....part of which is showing NO PARTIALITY. For the reason Calvinists truly do believe God shows such they're actually moving away from what they're predestinated to be. If they think God can show partiality and be morally right and just they basically will do so too. They think that is the image of God.

As such Calvinists have little appreciation of what you're talking about and how important it is in our Predestination path.

Exactly. Knowing the character of God who shows no favoritism is the predestination path. In real terms they think he shows favoritism., therefore a wrong path.