Another Gospel ?

SovereignGrace said:
Why do some have faith and others don’t? Why do some believe and others don’t?
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I really don't believe they are here to learn anything at all. They are here to tell us what we believe, even when corrected, showing that their statements of what we believe are false.

These carry on blindly in their misrepresentations because that is all they have to go on, and they won't face this fact.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
You do know there are warnings for those who add or take away from scripture right ? The verse says what it says and that “it” is Abraham’s belief that was counted unto him for righteousness Rom 4:3 - For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. In your delusion you have believed the lie that God given faith precedes salvation, but that is NOT scriptural. God increases faith to those who are saved to be able to operate in their spiritual gifts never given before belief, placing faith in Jesus, repenting, and following Jesus. Without Abraham believing God he would have received NOTHING:
Unchecked Copy Box
Rom 4:9 - Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. The verse says faith was reckoned NOT given.
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Yes indeed brother we will witness it at the Judgement.
 
eyesmile said:
It's called the Gospel.

1Co 9:19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
1Co 9:23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
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Amen to the true gospel
 
eternomade said:
Yes, what is the "it"?
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Do you know how to diagram a sentence ? If not get someone who knows how to diagram a sentence for you then you will understand that the “it” in Romans 4:3 is Abraham’s believing God. In Romans 4:9 where it says faith was reckoned to Abraham it is saying God credited to Abraham by grace through faith righteousnesses because he believed in the messiah and it is by grace through faith in the finished work of the Messiah that you and I are credited( reckoned) with righteousness.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Do you know how to diagram a sentence ? If not get someone who knows how to diagram a sentence for you then you will understand that the “it” in Romans 4:3 is Abraham’s believing God.
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I would like to say this about that...

Sentence diagramming is a very valuable skill, and it's a shame it's not taught in schools anymore. And the entire NT has been diagrammed, by multiple individuals. I'm in a FB group dedicated to discussing NT sentence diagramming, and it's very useful.

However, it is wrong to portray it as a method to guarantee getting a correct understanding of a Biblical text. While it does force people to think about and study the relationship different words have to one another (which frequently does not happen in regular Bible study), it does not negate the fact that many verses are ambiguous and can be validly inerpreted in more than one way. And the more that people realize that someone can sincerely and validly hold an opinion of a verse that is different than what you believe, the more opportunity there is for people (especially professing Christians) to be charitable to others with whom they disagree.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Do you know how to diagram a sentence ? If not get someone who knows how to diagram a sentence for you then you will understand that the “it” in Romans 4:3 is Abraham’s believing God. In Romans 4:9 where it says faith was reckoned to Abraham it is saying God credited to Abraham by grace through faith righteousnesses because he believed in the messiah and it is by grace through faith in the finished work of the Messiah that you and I are credited( reckoned) with righteousness.
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Nope that’s rather obvious
 
Christian said:
Nope that’s rather obvious
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Lol, I agree but obviously some don’t understand sentence structure like nouns, verbs, subject etc , and I don’t know if it is laziness or stubbornness when it comes to looking for definition of words , but how anyone gets gifted from reckoned is just staying blind.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Lol, I agree but obviously some don’t understand sentence structure like nouns, verbs, subject etc , and I don’t know if it is laziness or stubbornness when it comes to looking for definition of words , but how anyone gets gifted from reckoned is just staying blind.
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I couldn’t of said it better myself:)
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Do you know how to diagram a sentence ? If not get someone who knows how to diagram a sentence for you then you will understand that the “it” in Romans 4:3 is Abraham’s believing God. In Romans 4:9 where it says faith was reckoned to Abraham it is saying God credited to Abraham by grace through faith righteousnesses because he believed in the messiah and it is by grace through faith in the finished work of the Messiah that you and I are credited( reckoned) with righteousness.
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No, the "it" was not Abraham believing God.

Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:9 KJV

Faith here is the substance of the Gospel, which is the person and work of Jesus Christ, described in the previous chapter of Romans 3

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:27‭-‬28 KJV

From here Paul uses faith as a metynomy for Christ, or the "law of faith".

You can deny it all you want but it was not Abraham's faith which justified Him. It was the shed blood of Christ that justified Abraham.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 5:9 KJV

Abraham was not justified until the death of the testator.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Hebrews 9:15‭-‬17 KJV

Abraham received the promise but they were fulfilled in Christ.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:13 KJV

This is why Jesus says:

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:56 KJV
 
eternomade said:
No, the "it" was not Abraham believing God.

Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:9 KJV

Faith here is the substance of the Gospel, which is the person and work of Jesus Christ, described in the previous chapter of Romans 3

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:27‭-‬28 KJV

From here Paul uses faith as a metynomy for Christ, or the "law of faith".

You can deny it all you want but it was not Abraham's faith which justified Him. It was the shed blood of Christ that justified Abraham.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 5:9 KJV

Abraham was not justified until the death of the testator.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Hebrews 9:15‭-‬17 KJV

Abraham received the promise but they were fulfilled in Christ.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:13 KJV

This is why Jesus says:

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:56 KJV
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Righteousness was credited( reckoned) to Abraham because of his faith in Jesus. I pray you not walk but run away from Calvinism to Jesus. God is not the author of confusion and confusion perfectly describes Calvinism. Of course the fulfillment of Abraham’s faith in Jesus was not fulfilled ( though Abraham knew his faith in the Messiah being fulfilled was a future event ) in his day. Did you forget that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen ?
 
Synergy said:
First of all, nobody around here is a Sola Works proponent.
Second of all, how does your gospel line up with the following preordained justifying good works verses from James and Paul:

James 2:24 You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
Rom 2:7 indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.
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People don't typically teach that we are saved by works alone, but by faith and works. In regards to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came through faith.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *PERFECT HARMONY*

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

In regards to Romans 2:6-11, patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not set forth as the means of procuring eternal life, but is a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 11)
 
eyesmile said:
You just did.

Joh 6:27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."
Joh 6:28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
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Yes indeed he did good catch :)
 
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