Calvin believed complete divine determinism

No, they are not.

I have already shown how Calvin himself did not teach strict determinism but believed in both divine sovereignty and human volitional agency. Here are linked to other noted Calvinists doing the same.
Compatibilism at best but still determinism



Compatibilism (also known as soft determinism), is the belief that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. In light of Scripture, human choices are believed to be exercised voluntarily but the desires and circumstances that bring about these choices about occur through divine determinism (see Acts 2:23 & 4:27-28). It should be noted that this position is no less deterministic than hard determinism - be clear that neither soft nor hard determinism believes man has a free will. Our choices are only our choices because they are voluntary, not coerced. We do not make choices contrary to our desires or natures. Compatibilism is directly contrary to libertarian free will. Therefore voluntary choice is not the freedom to choose otherwise, that is, without any influence, prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. Voluntary does mean, however, the ability to choose what we want or desire most. The former view is known as contrary choice, the latter free agency. (Note: compatibilism denies that the will is free to choose otherwise, that is, free from the bondage of the corruption nature,for the unregenerate, and denies that the will is free from God's eternal decreee.) Compatibilism | Monergism


DIVINE CAUSAL DETERMINISM It should be conceded at the outset, and without any embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God. I will not argue this point—it can be amply documented from representative Calvinist sources—but will simply take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists and their critics agree. To be more precise, I will assume that Calvinism is committed to divine determinism in the following sense: (DD) For every event E, God decided that E should happen and that decision was the ultimate sufficient cause of E.320 In other words, every event that occurs is willed by God, God’s willing an event is a sufficient cause of that event, and the divine will has no prior cause

Calvinism and the problem of evil pg 204.205

Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events.
b Talbot, "All the Good That Is Ours in Christ", in Suffering and the Sovereignty of God, ed. John Piper and Justin Taylor,


If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.
(John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)
 
Three responses:

  1. I liked the video. Are you that young man?

It’s not me. Collin, from the Consistent Calvinism Podcast, is the one speaking in the video.


He has given me permission to make these CCShorts to highlight his points. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on Collins view of

I was walking along minding my own business.


rotflmbo!

Loved it. That guy could have said that one sentence and stared at the audience and gotten his point across! I was walking along minding my own business in God's creation! We are all self-centered fools oblivious to the magnitude of grace it takes not to speak our sin-ridden presence out of existence.

… what it means for God to be Omnipotent. I’m willing to bet it will be very interesting to you especially.

00:47:11 Foundation question
00:52:12 Omni-atributes addressed
00:55:24 "Omnipotence" specifically


Thread 'Free Will Meticulously Examined… and Refuted!'
https://forums.carm.org/threads/free-will-meticulously-examined…-and-refuted.5746/
 
Let me say, by way of sincere fellowship, respect and appreciation that I can find something with which I disagree in every one of the sources I just selected. I read, read a lot, and I read a lot with a big bowl of skepticism to nibble on as I read. I don't trust anyone but God (and I have a challenging time with that on occasion ;)). The same goes for every single one of you fellow CARM members. All of us Cals do not and will not agree on all things monergistic. Monergism is not monolithic. Neither is synergism. These are both spectrums of thought contained within a larger paradigm. They are not fixed points existing in isolation of one another. I've always thought of Frame as a radical Calvinist but as I was reading through Spurgeon in preparation of the post above I thought, "Yikes! I thought Frame was hard-Cal." Anyone ever read the Wiki article on Matthew Henry? Wiki calls him "Nonconformist." They mean that in the theological sense of the term but I'll bet Henry thought he was just the right amount of conformist - conformist to God. Frame, MacArthur, Sproul, Spurgeon, et all..... they all have differences among each other and with us.

God will fix us all in the end :cool:.
I read some Frame a while back, and I agreeded with his take on the whole Cornelius Van Til presupositionalism issue. Van til, and his student Greg Bahnsen oversell the idea and make logical mistakes.
 
Let me say, by way of sincere fellowship, respect and appreciation that I can find something with which I disagree in every one of the sources I just selected. I read, read a lot, and I read a lot with a big bowl of skepticism to nibble on as I read. I don't trust anyone but God (and I have a challenging time with that on occasion ;)). The same goes for every single one of you fellow CARM members. All of us Cals do not and will not agree on all things monergistic. Monergism is not monolithic. Neither is synergism. These are both spectrums of thought contained within a larger paradigm. They are not fixed points existing in isolation of one another. I've always thought of Frame as a radical Calvinist but as I was reading through Spurgeon in preparation of the post above I thought, "Yikes! I thought Frame was hard-Cal." Anyone ever read the Wiki article on Matthew Henry? Wiki calls him "Nonconformist." They mean that in the theological sense of the term but I'll bet Henry thought he was just the right amount of conformist - conformist to God. Frame, MacArthur, Sproul, Spurgeon, et all..... they all have differences among each other and with us.

God will fix us all in the end :cool:.
ditto
 
It’s not me. Collin, from the Consistent Calvinism Podcast, is the one speaking in the video.



He has given me permission to make these CCShorts to highlight his points. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on Collins view of



… what it means for God to be Omnipotent. I’m willing to bet it will be very interesting to you especially.

00:47:11 Foundation question
00:52:12 Omni-atributes addressed
00:55:24 "Omnipotence" specifically


Thread 'Free Will Meticulously Examined… and Refuted!'
https://forums.carm.org/threads/free-will-meticulously-examined…-and-refuted.5746/
Guess Calvinism does not really teach free will

All hail robot theology

or you can just believe the bible

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, but of your own free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
and you can add both the NEB and the REB

CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.



NENT 14
but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.

SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.



(NEB)
14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.



(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.

(EOB) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent: your goodness should not be forced, but of free will.
 
Guess Calvinism does not really teach free will
Not a will “free from God” anyway. “Free” in the sense that you are doing what you “wantyes. God Ultimately determines “ALL” things and this includes what you will do and that you want to do them. We deny Deism that something can be happening apart from God.

You fltom are promoting the heresy of Deism and Dualism every time you suggest that anything in Gods creation can function apart from the Ultimate power of God as if he is in competition, or a “force”, against other separate powers independent from him.

Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”
Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being


These verses are always true, in every moment, of ALL of creations existence such that nothing moves into its next state of being apart from God first determining to cause it to by his sustaining power. It is arrogant to assume otherwise, especially without justification.

If you are going to use any other verse of scripture to deny this then the burden is on you to demonstrate how “your interpretation” of those verses do not contradict the 3 foundational verses above… but I suspect you will avoide this challenge as you know it is impossible!
All hail robot theology

Robots do not have a “willing” or a “want” therefore God has way more control over his creation than you do over a robot! You do not uphold the very existence of your “robot”, moment by moment, into the very next state of its being.

Is your very next thought a created thing?

You assume, without justification, that a single neuron in your brain fired apart from God first determining to supply the power causing it? This is an arrogant philosophy!

or you can just believe the bible

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, but of your own free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
and you can add both the NEB and the REB

CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.



NENT 14
but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.

SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.



(NEB)
14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.



(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.

(EOB) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent: your goodness should not be forced, but of free will.

You have not shown how any of these verses are referring to being “free from God” as a reference point, therefore I have no problem with your verses. They only show that we are “free” from other created things that did not create or uphold our existence.

You have not proven that God is not necessary for your very next thought to come into existence.

Your assumption that God is a power, along side of and, in competition with another separate power in his creation, is the philosophy causing your confusion. God is not a force against his creation, God is the Omnipotent power behind ALL of his creation such that it never moves into its next state of existence by any power separate from him.

If you suggest that God “forces” anything as if it is a separate power, first you do not understand Omnipotence, and second you do not understand Calvinism!

Dualism is to be denied as heresy. Stop promoting it.
 
Not a will “free from God” anyway. “Free” in the sense that you are doing what you “wantyes. God Ultimately determines “ALL” things and this includes what you will do and that you want to do them. We deny Deism that something can be happening apart from God.

The normal understanding of free will includes the idea of alternative possibility at least at some point and it denied necessity

Compatibilism excludes alternative possibility and includes necessity
 
Not a will “free from God” anyway. “Free” in the sense that you are doing what you “wantyes. God Ultimately determines “ALL” things and this includes what you will do and that you want to do them. We deny Deism that something can be happening apart from God.

You fltom are promoting the heresy of Deism and Dualism every time you suggest that anything in Gods creation can function apart from the Ultimate power of God as if he is in competition, or a “force”, against other separate powers independent from him.

Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”
Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being


These verses are always true, in every moment, of ALL of creations existence such that nothing moves into its next state of being apart from God first determining to cause it to by his sustaining power. It is arrogant to assume otherwise, especially without justification.

If you are going to use any other verse of scripture to deny this then the burden is on you to demonstrate how “your interpretation” of those verses do not contradict the 3 foundational verses above… but I suspect you will avoide this challenge as you know it is impossible!


Robots do not have a “willing” or a “want” therefore God has way more control over his creation than you do over a robot! You do not uphold the very existence of your “robot”, moment by moment, into the very next state of its being.

Is your very next thought a created thing?

You assume, without justification, that a single neuron in your brain fired apart from God first determining to supply the power causing it? This is an arrogant philosophy!



You have not shown how any of these verses are referring to being “free from God” as a reference point, therefore I have no problem with your verses. They only show that we are “free” from other created things that did not create or uphold our existence.

You have not proven that God is not necessary for your very next thought to come into existence.

Your assumption that God is a power, along side of and, in competition with another separate power in his creation, is the philosophy causing your confusion. God is not a force against his creation, God is the Omnipotent power behind ALL of his creation such that it never moves into its next state of existence by any power separate from him.

If you suggest that God “forces” anything as if it is a separate power, first you do not understand Omnipotence, and second you do not understand Calvinism!

Dualism is to be denied as heresy. Stop promoting it.
You are confused Dualism hold there is a power that competes with God

Those who hold to Free will recognized free will is a gift from God not a force which competes with God

Free will is not dualism

Are you going to hold Adam with his free will was an example of dualism
 
Guess Calvinism does not really teach free will

All hail robot theology

or you can just believe the bible

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, but of your own free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
and you can add both the NEB and the REB

CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.



NENT 14
but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.

SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.



(NEB)
14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.



(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.

(EOB) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent: your goodness should not be forced, but of free will.
don't you hold to that doctrine ?
 
The normal understanding of free will includes the idea of alternative possibility at least at some point and it denied necessity

Compatibilism excludes alternative possibility and includes necessity

Remember God is the reference point that matters and you did not exist before creation to determine his knowledge…

So, in your view, at what point do you have the ability to do “alternative” to what God knew before he created you? Before or After he created you?

If you can’t justify an answer to this question then you can not prove something other than God determined what you will do in the timeline of creation!

You are not “free” from what God Planned, Purposed, and Determined you to do before he created you!
 
Remember God is the reference point that matters and you did not exist before creation to determine his knowledge…

So, in your view, at what point do you have the ability to do “alternative” to what God knew before he created you? Before or After he created you?

If you can’t justify an answer to this question then you can not prove something other than God determined what you will do in the timeline of creation!

You are not “free” from what God Planned, Purposed, and Determined you to do before he created you!
You confuse matters foreknowledge is not determination

God knew every one of your sins before and after becoming a Christian

Are you claiming he determined each and everyone?
 
Neither do Calvinist. “Robot theology” is to weak to describe the control God has over his creation!
So man iseven les than a robot but you believe he can be justly judges based on what he was made to be?
 
You are confused Dualism hold there is a power that competes with God

And that is what the assumption “God forces” implies!

Those who hold to Free will recognized free will is a gift from God not a force which competes with God

Again God is the reference point that matters…
The God who 100% exhaustively knows what you will do as the result of creating you, can not logically be the same God that gifts the ability to do other than the result of what he %100 knew before creating you!

It’s simply illogical!

Free will is not dualism

Even you define Dualsm as “a power that competes with God” above ☝️

Are you going to hold Adam with his free will was an example of dualism

No, Adam was not a power separate, or “free”, from God!

Adam could not do other than Gods known result of his act of creation!

Gods foreknowledge is his perfect knowledge of the exhaustive results of his own actions. There is no other justified explanation!
 
And that is what the assumption “God forces” implies!



Again God is the reference point that matters…
The God who 100% exhaustively knows what you will do as the result of creating you, can not logically be the same God that gifts the ability to do other than the result of what he %100 knew before creating you!

It’s simply illogical!



Even you define Dualsm as “a power that competes with God” above ☝️



No, Adam was not a power separate, or “free”, from God!

Adam could not do other than Gods known result of his act of creation!

Gods foreknowledge is his perfect knowledge of the exhaustive results of his own actions. There is no other justified


So Adam had free will but that is not an example of dualism but if we do then that is dualism

that argument is not rational
 
So man iseven les than a robot but you believe he can be justly judges based on what he was made to be?
Again you show your “limited finite understanding” of these things.

How do you get “man is less than a robot” from..
Robots do not have a “willing” or a “wanttherefore God has way more control over his creation than you do over a robot! You do not uphold the very existence of your “robot”, moment by moment, into the very next state of its being.

Is your very next thought a created thing?

You assume, without justification, that a single neuron in your brain fired apart from God first determining to supply the power causing it? This is an arrogant philosophy!

???
 
So Adam had free will but that is not an example of dualism but if we do then that is dualism

that argument is not rational

Again “the reference point is God” remember?

Adam never had a will that is “free from God”!

If you are simply stating Adam “willingly” did what he “wanted”, without being “forced” against a dualistic will, then what’s your problem with Calvinism again?
 
Back
Top