Christ came to save sinners. Some believe Christ came only to save the elect. So would that make the elect the only sinners?

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SavedByTheLord said:
Paul wrote the following:

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. - 1 Tim 1:15

Paul also wrote:

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. - 2 Tim 2:7

But some teach that Jesus Christ only died for the elect. Would that then lead to the conclusion that all the elect are sinners? And if that is correct, then the rest of mankind are not sinners. So that is obviously not true. Also then God would be putting the non elect in hell, yet they did not sin. But that is not true also.
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This matches what Christ said in John 3.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16

And what was written by Paul, Peter and John. Of course, not all will not be saved. To be saved a person must believe the gospel of Christ.

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. - 1 Tim 2:4

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. - Rev 22:17
 
SavedByTheLord said:
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. - 1 Tim 2:4
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So if I understand your misinterpretation, you deny God's omniscience, since your god apparently doesn't know that all men WON'T be saved. Your misinterpreation also denies God's omnipotence, since if God TRULY wanted "all men to be saved", He COULD make that happen.

SavedByTheLord said:
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9
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Your error here is that you seem to be taking this verse as having some "universal" context, but it is NOT "universal" in the least. This assertion is a promise to the "beloved" (v.8), who are "us-ward" (v.9).

SavedByTheLord said:
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. - Rev 22:17
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Wow... You really think Revelation is a presentation of the gospel message?!
 
Theo1689 said:
So if I understand your misinterpretation, you deny God's omniscience, since your god apparently doesn't know that all men WON'T be saved. Your misinterpreation also denies God's omnipotence, since if God TRULY wanted "all men to be saved", He COULD make that happen.
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So you deny god has a universal saving will?

That is a mark of hyper Calvinism
 
Theo1689 said:
Your error here is that you seem to be taking this verse as having some "universal" context, but it is NOT "universal" in the least. This assertion is a promise to the "beloved" (v.8), who are "us-ward" (v.9).
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Except the saved are not in danger of perishing or in need of repentance

however

1 Peter 3:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

God's longsuffering was shown even to those who perish
 
SavedByTheLord said:
Paul wrote the following:

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. - 1 Tim 1:15

Paul also wrote:

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. - 2 Tim 2:7

But some teach that Jesus Christ only died for the elect. Would that then lead to the conclusion that all the elect are sinners? And if that is correct, then the rest of mankind are not sinners. So that is obviously not true. Also then God would be putting the non elect in hell, yet they did not sin. But that is not true also.
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This is a complete non-sequitur! 1 Tim. 1:15 does not say that Jesus came to save every sinner, but that he came to save sinners (i.e. that is the defining characteristic of those people that he came to save). This obviously does not mean that people whom he did not come to save cannot also be sinners.
 
David1701 said:
This is a complete non-sequitur! 1 Tim. 1:15 does not say that Jesus came to save every sinner, but that he came to save sinners (i.e. that is the defining characteristic of those people that he came to save). This obviously does not mean that people whom he did not come to save cannot also be sinners.
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Certainly there is no reason to assume Christ came only to save select sinners
 
SavedByTheLord said:
Paul wrote the following:

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. - 1 Tim 1:15

Paul also wrote:

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. - 2 Tim 2:7

But some teach that Jesus Christ only died for the elect. Would that then lead to the conclusion that all the elect are sinners? And if that is correct, then the rest of mankind are not sinners. So that is obviously not true. Also then God would be putting the non elect in hell, yet they did not sin. But that is not true also.
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This verse doesn't say all sinners. Do you believe that all sinners will be saved? That seems to be what you are implying...
 
SavedByTheLord said:
No of course not .
But Christ did die for all sins.
Only those that believe the gospel of Christ are saved.
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The elect are the sinners who get saved... Christ does not have to save all sinners... And yes, only those who believe get saved. Who believes? Those given a gift of faith from the Holy Spirit.
 
Yodas_Prodigy said:
The elect are the sinners who get saved... Christ does not have to save all sinners... And yes, only those who believe get saved. Who believes? Those given a gift of faith from the Holy Spirit.
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So if Christ came to save sinners and only the elect then only the elect are sinners????
That is false.
 
SavedByTheLord said:
So if Christ came to save sinners and only the elect then only the elect are sinners????
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Of course not.

As has ALREADY been explained to you (you REALLY need to pay better attention), Scripture NEVER teaches, "Christ came to save ALL sinners".

The elect are sinners.
The non-elect are also sinners.

Christ came to save the elect, "his people", "his sheep", "his church".
Those elect are sinners.

But again, the non-elect are also sinners.
That's why they are condemned, after all.
 
Theo1689 said:
Of course not.

As has ALREADY been explained to you (you REALLY need to pay better attention), Scripture NEVER teaches, "Christ came to save ALL sinners".

The elect are sinners.
The non-elect are also sinners.

Christ came to save the elect, "his people", "his sheep", "his church".
Those elect are sinners.

But again, the non-elect are also sinners.
That's why they are condemned, after all.
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Christ came to save sinners it does not say elect sinners.
 
Theo1689 said:
I never said it did, so exactly who are you arguing against?!

And it ALSO doesn't say, "all sinners", so your argument isn't valid. That's the point you can't seem to comprehend.
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Are the non elect sinners?
Well Christ came into the world to save sinners.
 
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