Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?

Josheb said:
If scripture states he was in the grave three days and he was not, that matters. Since scripture establishes he had risen on the first day of the week and he was dead three days then we CANNOT say he was alive Friday, dead Saturday, and alive again on Sunday AND still make that three days. If there is one single place scripture is false then our ability to rely on it as truth is negated.

It does make a difference.
Click to expand...
It makes no difference at all.

What matters is -- Did he rise from the grave? If so why are you guys still waiting for him to come out from it to come and save you someday? Man has been looking for this redeemer for 6000 years.

Ironic is when God does send someone such as Moses, and Adam, and Abraham, and Jesus, and 120, and all today who has received from God as these did and tries to lead people as yourself to God, and has sent to lead them to God, what happens? They get lost in the wilderness, -- why? they didnt follow the instructions on how to recieve from God Himself and look for another.

Christ, Gods anointing in man, has risen and come to us all who has received Him to be Gods anointed, Christ in me. Says, weeks, months years doesnt matter at all, that is just trivial.

And actually He is at your door knocking this day and any man who will let Him in He will come to you and sup with you and be in you.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He would come to you this day but as long as you hold him in that grave, you never will see Him as He is. The promise is that when, or if you ever do let Him in and see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him as well. 1 John 3. You dont believe that He is at your door do you. for if you did you would let the Christ come to you as well as Jesus opens that door and let Him in.

You dont know who or what Christ is do you? Christ is Gods anointing, mind, Spirit, in man to be anointed of Him which is Christ in me same One who was in Jesus starting in Matt 3:16. He was risen from the dead an that man as well and that man just as us all come to life in Him from that dead spirit that you hold in a grave.

We whould come to you if you and be in you to if you would open that door that Rev 3:so states, but you dont believe that so you will go to a graver waiting but never knowing God, nor His anointing to have His same mind to be in you, which would be Christ in you as well.

Most dont know that Jesus was anointed of God, they think he was a god instead. You would have to repent of yourself in your ways and open that door to Him and let Him in as all of these did we read of who God did come and saved them and made them as Himself just as He would you as well. But that isn't going to hap[pen is it, the creed you are dedicated to instead of opening that door, will not allow God to come to you will it?
 
Last edited:
Gary Mac said:
It makes no difference at all.

What matters is -- Did he rise from the grave?
Click to expand...

Not in their world. In their world, he took off at the point of death and left his mansuit behind on the cross. He came back and got it three days later. But for these, he himself never was in the tomb but elsewhere.

Gary Mac said:
If so why are you guys still waiting for him to come out from it to come and save you someday? Man has been looking for this redeemer for 6000 years.

Ironic is when God does send someone such as Moses, and Adam, and Abraham, and Jesus, and 120, and all today who has received from God as these did and tries to lead people as yourself to God, and has sent to lead them to God, what happens? They get lost in the wilderness, -- why? they didnt follow the instructions on how to recieve from God Himself and look for another.

Christ, Gods anointing in man, has risen and come to us all who has received Him to be Gods anointed, Christ in me. Says, weeks, months years doesnt matter at all, that is just trivial.

And actually He is at your door knocking this day and any man who will let Him in He will come to you and sup with you and be in you.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He would come to you this day but as long as you hold him in that grave, you never will see Him as He is. The promise is that when, or if you ever do let Him in and see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him as well. 1 John 3. You dont believe that He is at your door do you. for if you did you would let the Christ come to you as well as Jesus opens that door and let Him in.

You dont know who or what Christ is do you? Christ is Gods anointing, mind, Spirit, in man to be anointed of Him which is Christ in me same One who was in Jesus starting in Matt 3:16. He was risen from the dead an that man as well and that man just as us all come to life in Him from that dead spirit that you hold in a grave.

We whould come to you if you and be in you to if you would open that door that Rev 3:so states, but you dont believe that so you will go to a graver waiting but never knowing God, nor His anointing to have His same mind to be in you, which would be Christ in you as well.

Most dont know that Jesus was anointed of God, they think he was a god instead. You would have to repent of yourself in your ways and open that door to Him and let Him in as all of these did we read of who God did come and saved them and made them as Himself just as He would you as well. But that isn't going to hap[pen is it, the creed you are dedicated to instead of opening that door, will not allow God to come to you will it?
Click to expand...
 
Gary Mac said:
It makes no difference at all.

What matters is -- Did he rise from the grave?
Click to expand...
Yes, it matters whether he rose from the grave but that does not exclude the importance of scripture's reliability. You're arguing a false dichotomy.
 
Our Lord's God said:
Not in their world. In their world, he took off at the point of death and left his mansuit behind on the cross. He came back and got it three days later. But for these, he himself never was in the tomb but elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Most belief systems do not believe he is risen from the grave and still wait for a man to come as a god. But for we who has received Him He is risen in us and resurrected us from that same spiritual grave to come to life in Him. That is the whole message in the cross. Death to the flesh man with a cazrnal mind, and resurrection fo the Spirit man who is of God by God Himself.

He is at their door knocking this day but because they seek another god, the One who is at their door cannot enter for these has an alternate god.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

These cant hear that at all for they worship a different god from this One who is at there door this day, and these will go to a grave never received His promise of coming to them for they refuse to let Him in that door that Jesus let Him in in Matt 3:16.
 
Gary Mac said:
Most belief systems do not believe he is risen from the grave
Click to expand...

I completely understand what you mean.

Gary Mac said:
and still wait for a man to come as a god.
Click to expand...

Paul warned about this delusion.

Gary Mac said:
But for we who has received Him He is risen in us and resurrected us from that same spiritual grave to come to life in Him. That is the whole message in the cross. Death to the flesh man with a cazrnal mind, and resurrection fo the Spirit man who is of God by God Himself.
Click to expand...

Exactly right.

Gary Mac said:
He is at their door knocking this day but because they seek another god, the One who is at their door cannot enter for these has an alternate god.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

These cant hear that at all for they worship a different god from this One who is at there door this day, and these will go to a grave never received His promise of coming to them for they refuse to let Him in that door that Jesus let Him in in Matt 3:16.
Click to expand...
 
Our Lord's God said:
I completely understand what you mean.



Paul warned about this delusion.



Exactly right.
Click to expand...
The moment that these stops debating with God about Him being flesh instead of Spirit that He is, is the very moment that God comes to them and reveals Himself where the Spirit of God witnesses to the redemption of our Lord, He does not witness to anything else.

It isn that God won't reveal Himself, it is that He cant because these will not let Him come and be in them. These has other agendas for the gods they have developed where they can control by the laws to regulate their beliefs for a god and manipulate in their terms for a god.
 
Hawk said:
Heart of the Earth does not mean……the tomb.
Click to expand...
I agree with you Hawk. However, you must remember man is more than just his body. He also has a soul and spirit. In the days Jesus lived Jews in Palestine believed there was a place where all the departed spirits went to. That place was known in the Hebrew Scriptures as Sheol. Sheol was considered the common grave of all mankind. That means everyone who died, whether they received a burial or not, would go to Sheol in a state of "sleep". This place was considered to be a subterranean part of the earth. In the Greek world, Sheol was called Hades.

www.britannica.com

Sheol | Definition, Meaning in Hebrew Bible, & Facts

Sheol, abode of the dead in the Hebrew Bible (the Christian Old Testament). The term can be interpreted to mean either the literal place in which dead people are placed (i.e., in the ground) or the ancient world’s concept of the afterlife as a subterranean “land of gloom and deep darkness” (Book of
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com

Josephus wrote a small book describing Hades and he too described it as a subterranean part of the earth.

An Extract out of Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks Concerning Hades, By Flavius Josephus

www.gutenberg.org

There were some differences between what the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades meant. But this is one of the options for what "the heart of the earth" meant. One thing I should mention is "heart of the earth" doesn't mean the exact center of the earth but could be simply a place believed to be somewhere below the earth's surface. Man is dual in nature, therefore, his soul goes to Sheol (or Hades) at the moment of death and his spirit returns to the God that gave it. His body on the other hand, goes to the grave if there is one.

Here is a passage from John 19:38-42 regarding the body of Jesus, from the NIV.

The Burial of Jesus​

38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. 39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.[a] 40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid JESUS (emphasis is mine) there.

Notice Jesus's body is still called JESUS.

Now I realize that there are many interpretations of "the heart of the earth" but I have to give you credit. A tomb doesn't seem likely to be "the heart of the earth". However, I find some theories hard to believe. Some claim that Jesus was under the control of evil men for three days and three nights, beginning with his capture in the garden while it was still night on Nisan 14. However, this is not likely.

Jesus had this to say about what happens to you after man kills the body:

LUKE 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

So, once Jesus was killed, mankind had no further control over him. So that interpretation is unlikely.

However, I am interested in hearing more theories about what "the heart of the earth" means.

Best,
Saber Truth Tiger
 
Saber Truth Tiger said:
I agree with you Hawk. However, you must remember man is more than just his body. He also has a soul and spirit. In the days Jesus lived Jews in Palestine believed there was a place where all the departed spirits went to. That place was known in the Hebrew Scriptures as Sheol. Sheol was considered the common grave of all mankind. That means everyone who died, whether they received a burial or not, would go to Sheol in a state of "sleep". This place was considered to be a subterranean part of the earth. In the Greek world, Sheol was called Hades.

www.britannica.com

Sheol | Definition, Meaning in Hebrew Bible, & Facts

Sheol, abode of the dead in the Hebrew Bible (the Christian Old Testament). The term can be interpreted to mean either the literal place in which dead people are placed (i.e., in the ground) or the ancient world’s concept of the afterlife as a subterranean “land of gloom and deep darkness” (Book of
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com

Josephus wrote a small book describing Hades and he too described it as a subterranean part of the earth.

An Extract out of Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks Concerning Hades, By Flavius Josephus

www.gutenberg.org

There were some differences between what the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades meant. But this is one of the options for what "the heart of the earth" meant. One thing I should mention is "heart of the earth" doesn't mean the exact center of the earth but could be simply a place believed to be somewhere below the earth's surface. Man is dual in nature, therefore, his soul goes to Sheol (or Hades) at the moment of death and his spirit returns to the God that gave it. His body on the other hand, goes to the grave if there is one.

Here is a passage from John 19:38-42 regarding the body of Jesus, from the NIV.

The Burial of Jesus​

38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. 39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.[a] 40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid JESUS (emphasis is mine) there.

Notice Jesus's body is still called JESUS.

Now I realize that there are many interpretations of "the heart of the earth" but I have to give you credit. A tomb doesn't seem likely to be "the heart of the earth". However, I find some theories hard to believe. Some claim that Jesus was under the control of evil men for three days and three nights, beginning with his capture in the garden while it was still night on Nisan 14. However, this is not likely.

Jesus had this to say about what happens to you after man kills the body:

LUKE 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

So, once Jesus was killed, mankind had no further control over him. So that interpretation is unlikely.

However, I am interested in hearing more theories about what "the heart of the earth" means.

Best,
Saber Truth Tiger
Click to expand...


Did people and all their belongings fall down into a spiritual realm of the dead located somewhere below the surface of the earth?

But if the Lord brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the Lord.” 31 As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. 33 So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.
 
Our Lord's God said:
Did people and all their belongings fall down into a spiritual realm of the dead located somewhere below the surface of the earth?

But if the Lord brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the Lord.” 31 As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. 33 So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.
Click to expand...
Hi, yes, those rebels descended into Sheol alive but they weren't alive long. The Bible teaches clearly Sheol is the abode of the dead. So, when those living were swallowed up and the earth closed over them they were dead. Sheol is for the dead, not the living.

Thanks for responding,

Saber Truth Tiger
 
rstrats said:
Someone new looking in may know of examples.
Click to expand...
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Shalom, rstrats, were my comments any help to you? There is no Jewish idiom that counts a little part of daytime as a whole day AND a whole night. Likewise, there is no Jewish idiom that counts a little part of nighttime as a whole day AND a whole night. It is commonly claimed that this was the case but it isn't true. Read some of my comments on this thread beginning with page eight. I posted first on comment # 144 and from there you can read my comments. Short answer, the "three days and three nights" idiom meaning "two days and two nights" doesn't exist.
 
Saber Truth Tiger said:
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Shalom, rstrats, were my comments any help to you? There is no Jewish idiom that counts a little part of daytime as a whole day AND a whole night. Likewise, there is no Jewish idiom that counts a little part of nighttime as a whole day AND a whole night. It is commonly claimed that this was the case but it isn't true. Read some of my comments on this thread beginning with page eight. I posted first on comment # 144 and from there you can read my comments. Short answer, the "three days and three nights" idiom meaning "two days and two nights" doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Just imagine if such an idiom existed. And someone said they would visit their family for three days and three nights. Now, what does that person really mean? Does he really mean three days or three nights? Or does he really mean only two days and two nights? How could you be sure he really means three days and three nights or two days and two nights? If such an idiom existed you would have to ask him to which meaning he was referring. You know, so you can be prepared for his return. Those who claim this is an idiom actually believe three days and three nights is the same as two days and two nights. Don't worry my friend, you are on the right track, questioning authority and checking up on those who make these claims. They have no proof for their claim.
 
rstrats said:
The OP is directed to those who believe the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who think that the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body, and who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying He was employing common figure of speech/colloquial usage of the period, and who can provide examples to support the assertion of commonality.
If that applies to you, I don't see where your post provides any examples.
Click to expand...
well, an issue in Hebrew is, that their Day starts in the evening/night fall ?
 
Saber Truth Tiger said:
Just imagine if such an idiom existed. And someone said they would visit their family for three days and three nights. Now, what does that person really mean? Does he really mean three days or three nights? Or does he really mean only two days and two nights? How could you be sure he really means three days and three nights or two days and two nights? If such an idiom existed you would have to ask him to which meaning he was referring. You know, so you can be prepared for his return. Those who claim this is an idiom actually believe three days and three nights is the same as two days and two nights. Don't worry my friend, you are on the right track, questioning authority and checking up on those who make these claims. They have no proof for their claim.
Click to expand...
So let me ask, is English actually your first language or not ? BTW a day is 24 hours, yea, I kid you not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top