Defending Christianity from Christians

JonHawk said:
But if you don't grow, you are like someone who is short-sighted or blind, and has forgotten that God delivered him from the old life of sin;
So be sure of of your call and election, then you will never stumble and in this way you will be given a rich; lavish ·welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world...
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ —it is by grace you have been saved. Eph 2
My pastor taught us with the Greek tenses all the time. It totally transformed reality back to where its supposed to be.
προορίσας ἡμᾶς εἰς υἱοθεσίαν διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς αὐτόν, κατὰ τὴν εὐδοκίαν τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ, εἰς ἔπαινον δόξης τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἧς ἐχαρίτωσεν ἡμᾶς ἐν τῷ ἠγαπημένῳ, ἐν ᾧ ἔχομεν τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν διὰ τοῦ αἵματος αὐτοῦ, τὴν ἄφεσιν τῶν παραπτωμάτων, κατὰ τὸ πλοῦτος τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἧς ἐπερίσσευσεν εἰς ἡμᾶς ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ καὶ φρονήσει ΠΡΟΣ ΕΦΕΣΙΟΥΣ 1:5-8
 
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Jesus did not order a meal for the Pharisees.
Nor, turn water into wine for them.

He gave them a reality report.

You must discern. Not all situations are the same.
Have no clue what you are talking about. What does any of this have to do with what we have been discussing?
 
Not everyone who is saved will receive a "lavish welcome."

Instead? Many will simply be glad to find they are saved, and will be eternally and immensely overjoyed to have a resurrection body!

Only those who become winners in the "good fight" will receive honor and reward. A lavish welcome!


To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne,
just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne." Revelation 3:21​

Many others who are saved will not receive a lavish welcome. Because, instead of submitting to the needed suffering of soul required by God as to get through the pressures to overcome the evils of their day, overcome by gaining more and more sound doctrine? They will instead seek out teachings as to please their natural way of seeing things. Those teachings designed to enable them to walk in their emotions in leu of the Spirit. These "emotionally pleased" ones will become stubborn and closed minded when their self satisfying 'comfort zone' is challenged by objective sound doctrinal teaching. They resent it.


For the time will come when they will not put up with (tolerate) sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number
of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3​


We are there today! It is why we see too many silly arguments that seem to never end.

Some will smell like smoke.
 
Good way to show the Greek tenses!

But, you will have to remind us what the colors mean each time you find need to use it.

I like that! :) ... its very helpful!
Yeah, good way to use colored markers, simply emphasizing the obvious. Greek is colorful and so are BJ's markers.
 
JonHawk said:
But if you don't grow, you are like someone who is short-sighted or blind, and has forgotten that God delivered him from the old life of sin;
So be sure of of your call and election, then you will never stumble and in this way you will be given a rich; lavish ·welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world...
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ —it is by grace you have been saved. Eph 2

καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου, εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ ἐν ἀγάπῃ,
ΠΡΟΣ ΕΦΕΣΙΟΥΣ 1:4


That is just Greek. With no Greek tenses explained.

Might as well use Google translate.


" as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, we are holy and blameless before him in love."

Greek tenses need to be expounded upon quite often to get a big picture, rather than simply working with a generalized translation that can lead to too much subjectivity = false teachings. Many conflicting teachings as we see flourishing in the grand number today.

Jesus warned. Only a few will find it. Many will choose the 'broad and wide' way of thinking...
 
But the people I speak of are of certain sects like " The Born Again" and " Evangelical" " Baptist" so forth and so on, " Who have the name of being alive but are dead" and will not exalt in Mary's exaltation in God. They say " We are Christian" yet have made it a life long mission of saying Lord, lord all while bashing his mother! They get to the point where they cannot recite those verses anymore. It is gall to them. Then they give responses like yours when it is clear they pretext. They teach people , Mary is not special, yet prophecy and the gospel clearly shows she is. Even she in her exalting from God, speaks about how blessed she is and how all generations of the faithful will too say that. Yet for some reason certain sects can't put 1 & 1 togethet and then proceed to misinterpret every dialogue of the scriptures concerning Mary. They put them forth in contradictory terms. God is not a hypocrite nor like a man who needs to repent and change. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and He said honor your mother. In doing so you honor your Father who is in heaven.

Your claim is an out and out abrogation of the truth and your outright hatred for born-again Christians speaks of whom you serve, mariolater.
 
Have no clue what you are talking about. What does any of this have to do with what we have been discussing?
Legalism vs grace.

Legalism needs to be fed truth in spite of the fact they will most likely push the plate away.

Feeding does not mean they will eat. Enemies need to be hungry for truth before one will eat. Jesus wants us to offer to feed just in case the enemy is hungry for truth. It does not mean one is to keep putting a plate in front of them when they keep smashing the plate on the floor.

Jesus fed his enemies truth. They crucified Him for it.
 
Your claim is an out and out abrogation of the truth and your outright hatred for born-again Christians speaks of whom you serve, mariolater.
Mariolater???? what in the world is that? I know you cannot be saying you cannot do according to scripture what God says you can? "Hail Mary full of grace-or- Greetings Favored of God,(both are correct)- the Lord is with you, blessed is the fruit of your womb ( Jesus). I too am highly favored that the mother of my Lord should come to visit me! Blessed are you for believing that there would be a performance of God's word to you!"

Now here is some actual Greek I will drop!

To understand the meaning of FULL OF GRACE -(Kercharitomene) one must understand what the word means .
The Grace of God
The word 'grace' literally means 'favour'
In Hebrew it is CHEN from a root word CHANAN - to bend or stoop in kindness to another as a superior to an inferior (Strongs 2603)
In Greek it is CHARIS and has the idea of graciousness in manner or action (Strongs 5485) it comes from a root word CHAIRO to be cheerful, happy (Strongs 5463)

When used in reference to God, it is the benevolent action of Him stooping down to us in His kindness to reach us in our need, and convey upon us a benefit. His grace has been termed 'unmerited favour' but it is more than an attitude of favour or mercy. His mercy is an expression of His compassion toward us, but His grace is an extension of benevolence translated into action that releases His enabling power into our lives.

Seeing that we never merit His favour, we are always indebted to Him to extend to us His Mercy and bestow upon us His grace whereby we may respond to Him in an acceptable manner. From beginning to end we are dependent upon Him, for life itself, for all sustenance by which we continue to live and have our existence, and on a spiritual level from that, all energizing power by which we progress in our walk.

"In him we live and move and have our being (our existence)" Acts 17:28

“ Hail Full of Grace” the feminine translates to kecharitōmĕnē the perfect passive participle of charitŏō

to make graceful, endow with grace
Usage: I favor, bestow freely on, and that would be fully not partially because she is given the fullness of Life- Christ to be responsible for.

And it does not indicate a past event, it simply is the feminine form of what Christ Himself is called, stating that because Catholics too like to bend Greek to say what they want it to say. She did not have this happen to her at her conception in her mother's womb either. Rather, it is a pronouncement of what is to be, from then on moving forward forever.




favor highly

From charis; to grace, i.e. Indue with special honor -- make accepted, be highly favoured.

participle-chart-2.png

Kecharitmene
(Ke)-is the greeting, (charito) Present tense -Graced One ( MEANING AT THAT MOMENT AT THE ANGELS MESSAGE SHE IS BEING GRACED BY HIS PRESENTS- Hence , the Lord is with you), (Mene) -feminine making the greeting to a woman

John 1:14


says that Jesus was plErEs charitos, which literally means "full of grace." (Those capital Es are present etas, so pronounce them like the e in "they"; the word is thus pronounced PLAY-RACE).

Luke 1:28 uses kecharitomene, which literally means "one who has been graced" or "woman who has been graced" (since the gender is female). It literally means to be "filled with grace," due to God's presence. At her (Yes) from that moment on she is therefore full of grace , not before. Christ is simply full of Grace because He is from which all grace flows. For mother Mary it happened according to the Word , she is not the word. Luke 1:37 Gabriel Foretells Jesus' Birth

…37For no word from God will ever fail.” 38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her.


Your claim is an out and out abrogation of the truth and your outright hatred for born-again Christians speaks of whom you serve, mariolater.
Christ said you have a name of being alive but are dead not me, I just believe what He says.
Revelation 3
The Message to Sardis

3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars:
“I know your works; you have a name of being alive, but you are dead. (Born Again, really can get more specific than that )2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God. 3 Remember then what you received and heard; obey it, and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. 4 Yet you have still a few persons in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes; they will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes, and I will not blot your name out of the book of life; I will confess your name before my Father and before his angels. 6 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Sardis means: "Red One's Escaping" their garments will be made white! Those who can escape and have not ended up a hater.

Seems if you will confess a completed work by confessing Mary in your doctrine then Christ will confess your name before His Father. Actually, I hate no one. But it is clear you hate Mary with all your Mariolater this and that.
 
Mariolater???? what in the world is that? I know you cannot be saying you cannot do according to scripture what God says you can? "Hail Mary full of grace-or- Greetings Favored of God,(both are correct)- the Lord is with you, blessed is the fruit of your womb ( Jesus). I too am highly favored that the mother of my Lord should come to visit me! Blessed are you for believing that there would be a performance of God's word to you!"

Now here is some actual Greek I will drop!

To understand the meaning of FULL OF GRACE -(Kercharitomene) one must understand what the word means .
The Grace of God
The word 'grace' literally means 'favour'
In Hebrew it is CHEN from a root word CHANAN - to bend or stoop in kindness to another as a superior to an inferior (Strongs 2603)
In Greek it is CHARIS and has the idea of graciousness in manner or action (Strongs 5485) it comes from a root word CHAIRO to be cheerful, happy (Strongs 5463)

When used in reference to God, it is the benevolent action of Him stooping down to us in His kindness to reach us in our need, and convey upon us a benefit. His grace has been termed 'unmerited favour' but it is more than an attitude of favour or mercy. His mercy is an expression of His compassion toward us, but His grace is an extension of benevolence translated into action that releases His enabling power into our lives.

Seeing that we never merit His favour, we are always indebted to Him to extend to us His Mercy and bestow upon us His grace whereby we may respond to Him in an acceptable manner. From beginning to end we are dependent upon Him, for life itself, for all sustenance by which we continue to live and have our existence, and on a spiritual level from that, all energizing power by which we progress in our walk.

"In him we live and move and have our being (our existence)" Acts 17:28

“ Hail Full of Grace” the feminine translates to kecharitōmĕnē the perfect passive participle of charitŏō

to make graceful, endow with grace
Usage: I favor, bestow freely on, and that would be fully not partially because she is given the fullness of Life- Christ to be responsible for.

And it does not indicate a past event, it simply is the feminine form of what Christ Himself is called, stating that because Catholics too like to bend Greek to say what they want it to say. She did not have this happen to her at her conception in her mother's womb either. Rather, it is a pronouncement of what is to be, from then on moving forward forever.




favor highly

From charis; to grace, i.e. Indue with special honor -- make accepted, be highly favoured.

participle-chart-2.png

Kecharitmene
(Ke)-is the greeting, (charito) Present tense -Graced One ( MEANING AT THAT MOMENT AT THE ANGELS MESSAGE SHE IS BEING GRACED BY HIS PRESENTS- Hence , the Lord is with you), (Mene) -feminine making the greeting to a woman

John 1:14


says that Jesus was plErEs charitos, which literally means "full of grace." (Those capital Es are present etas, so pronounce them like the e in "they"; the word is thus pronounced PLAY-RACE).

Luke 1:28 uses kecharitomene, which literally means "one who has been graced" or "woman who has been graced" (since the gender is female). It literally means to be "filled with grace," due to God's presence. At her (Yes) from that moment on she is therefore full of grace , not before. Christ is simply full of Grace because He is from which all grace flows. For mother Mary it happened according to the Word , she is not the word. Luke 1:37 Gabriel Foretells Jesus' Birth

…37For no word from God will ever fail.” 38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her.



Christ said you have a name of being alive but are dead not me, I just believe what He says.
Revelation 3
The Message to Sardis

3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars:
“I know your works; you have a name of being alive, but you are dead. (Born Again, really can get more specific than that )2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God. 3 Remember then what you received and heard; obey it, and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. 4 Yet you have still a few persons in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes; they will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes, and I will not blot your name out of the book of life; I will confess your name before my Father and before his angels. 6 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Sardis means: "Red One's Escaping" their garments will be made white! Those who can escape and have not ended up a hater.

Seems if you will confess a completed work by confessing Mary in your doctrine lo then Christ will confess your name before His Father. Actually, I hate no one. But it is clear you hate Mary with all your Mariolater this and that.

I honor Mary as the mother of Jesus. She is called blessed. But I do not offer fealty to a creature, created by God. I do not pray to dead saints nor a Rc characture of Mary, the mother of Jesus. I do not believe she was born without sin, an ever virgin, never consummated her marriage with Joseph, that she is not the mother of other siblings of Jesus, or that she was assumed to heaven, bodily. All of these are unbiblical claims, heretical, not of God and a direct assault on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. These are of satan and used to create stumbling blocks. Now, if not believing these mariolatrous heresies condemns me in your eyes, so be it.
 
Mariolater???? what in the world is that? I know you cannot be saying you cannot do according to scripture what God says you can? "Hail Mary full of grace-or- Greetings Favored of God,(both are correct)- the Lord is with you, blessed is the fruit of your womb ( Jesus). I too am highly favored that the mother of my Lord should come to visit me! Blessed are you for believing that there would be a performance of God's word to you!"

Now here is some actual Greek I will drop!

To understand the meaning of FULL OF GRACE -(Kercharitomene) one must understand what the word means .
The Grace of God
The word 'grace' literally means 'favour'
In Hebrew it is CHEN from a root word CHANAN - to bend or stoop in kindness to another as a superior to an inferior (Strongs 2603)
In Greek it is CHARIS and has the idea of graciousness in manner or action (Strongs 5485) it comes from a root word CHAIRO to be cheerful, happy (Strongs 5463)

When used in reference to God, it is the benevolent action of Him stooping down to us in His kindness to reach us in our need, and convey upon us a benefit. His grace has been termed 'unmerited favour' but it is more than an attitude of favour or mercy. His mercy is an expression of His compassion toward us, but His grace is an extension of benevolence translated into action that releases His enabling power into our lives.

Seeing that we never merit His favour, we are always indebted to Him to extend to us His Mercy and bestow upon us His grace whereby we may respond to Him in an acceptable manner. From beginning to end we are dependent upon Him, for life itself, for all sustenance by which we continue to live and have our existence, and on a spiritual level from that, all energizing power by which we progress in our walk.

"In him we live and move and have our being (our existence)" Acts 17:28

“ Hail Full of Grace” the feminine translates to kecharitōmĕnē the perfect passive participle of charitŏō

to make graceful, endow with grace
Usage: I favor, bestow freely on, and that would be fully not partially because she is given the fullness of Life- Christ to be responsible for.

And it does not indicate a past event, it simply is the feminine form of what Christ Himself is called, stating that because Catholics too like to bend Greek to say what they want it to say. She did not have this happen to her at her conception in her mother's womb either. Rather, it is a pronouncement of what is to be, from then on moving forward forever.




favor highly

From charis; to grace, i.e. Indue with special honor -- make accepted, be highly favoured.

participle-chart-2.png

Kecharitmene
(Ke)-is the greeting, (charito) Present tense -Graced One ( MEANING AT THAT MOMENT AT THE ANGELS MESSAGE SHE IS BEING GRACED BY HIS PRESENTS- Hence , the Lord is with you), (Mene) -feminine making the greeting to a woman

John 1:14


says that Jesus was plErEs charitos, which literally means "full of grace." (Those capital Es are present etas, so pronounce them like the e in "they"; the word is thus pronounced PLAY-RACE).

Luke 1:28 uses kecharitomene, which literally means "one who has been graced" or "woman who has been graced" (since the gender is female). It literally means to be "filled with grace," due to God's presence. At her (Yes) from that moment on she is therefore full of grace , not before. Christ is simply full of Grace because He is from which all grace flows. For mother Mary it happened according to the Word , she is not the word. Luke 1:37 Gabriel Foretells Jesus' Birth

…37For no word from God will ever fail.” 38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her.



Christ said you have a name of being alive but are dead not me, I just believe what He says.
Revelation 3
The Message to Sardis

3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars:
“I know your works; you have a name of being alive, but you are dead. (Born Again, really can get more specific than that )2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God. 3 Remember then what you received and heard; obey it, and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. 4 Yet you have still a few persons in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes; they will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes, and I will not blot your name out of the book of life; I will confess your name before my Father and before his angels. 6 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Sardis means: "Red One's Escaping" their garments will be made white! Those who can escape and have not ended up a hater.

Seems if you will confess a completed work by confessing Mary in your doctrine lo then Christ will confess your name before His Father. Actually, I hate no one. But it is clear you hate Mary with all your Mariolater this and that.
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. (Genesis 6:8)

Should we have statues of Noah on out lawns, too?
 
I honor Mary as the mother of Jesus. She is called blessed. But I do not offer fealty to a creature, created by God. I do not pray to dead saints nor a Rc characture of Mary, the mother of Jesus. I do not believe she was born without sin, an ever virgin, never consummated her marriage with Joseph, that she is not the mother of other siblings of Jesus, or that she was assumed to heaven, bodily. All of these are unbiblica claims and heresies and not of God. These are of satan and used to create stumbling blocks. Now, if not believing these mariolatrous heresies condemns me in your eyes, so be it.
Peter was called "blessed" also. (Matthew 16:17) Should we include statues of Peter next to Noah on our lawns?
 
Ten million Catholics all praying to Mary simultaneously. How can she sort them all out?

That takes God to be able to do.
 
I honor Mary as the mother of Jesus. She is called blessed. But I do not offer fealty to a creature, created by God. I do not pray to dead saints nor a Rc characture of Mary, the mother of Jesus. I do not believe she was born without sin, an ever virgin, never consummated her marriage with Joseph, that she is not the mother of other siblings of Jesus, or that she was assumed to heaven, bodily. All of these are unbiblican and not of God. Now, if not believing these mariolatrous heresies condemns me in your eyes, so be it.
Yes, she is called blessed, do you call her blessed? Don't do word play with me. Satan knows she called blessed too, but he won't call her that.

Saints don't die remember, that is why Christ came that we may eternal life!

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!

" I do not believe she was born without sin, an ever virgin, never consummated her marriage with Joseph, that she is not the mother of other siblings of Jesus, or that she was assumed to heaven, bodily. All of these are unbiblican and not of God. Now, if not believing these mariolatrous heresies condemns me in your eyes, so be it."

Some of this is true that you are saying, but I bet if you knew the whole truth you would still reject it. Yes, Catholics have some mistakes in doctrine but guess what SO DO YOU. Don't be a hypocrite!
 
Yes, she is called blessed, do you call her blessed? Don't do word play with me. Satan knows she called blessed too, but he won't call her that.

Saints don't die remember, that is why Christ came that we may eternal life!
Word play. I've had that same discussion with Rc's and don't care to do it again.
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!
Stop. You are making yourself look foolish with such semantics.
" I do not believe she was born without sin, an ever virgin, never consummated her marriage with Joseph, that she is not the mother of other siblings of Jesus, or that she was assumed to heaven, bodily. All of these are unbiblican and not of God. Now, if not believing these mariolatrous heresies condemns me in your eyes, so be it."

Some of this is true that you are saying, but I bet if you knew the whole truth you would still reject it. Yes, Catholics have some mistakes in doctrine but guess what SO DO YOU. Don't be a hypocrite!
I do know the whole truth. Your gnosis does not interest me.
 
Peter was called "blessed" also. (Matthew 16:17) Should we include statues of Peter next to Noah on our lawns?
Corny. Point is you prove me right. The topic is Mary, And I am not comparing her to Peter. Point is if not her first then not to anyone.
Romans 1:
Unashamed of the Gospel
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: The righteous will live by faith.” 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.…

No matter how you turn the gospel began with and in Mary. Prove that wrong! This what it looks like when you defend Christianity, FOR REAL!
 
Word play. I've had that same discussion with Rc's and don't care to do it again.

Stop. You are making yourself look foolish with such semantics.

I do know the whole truth. Your gnosis does not interest me.
Lol! Then bye , bye. But I definitely hit a sore spot. That Red Sore where the serpent bit does not like my salty flavor.
 
Lol! Then bye , bye. But I definitely hit a sore spot. That Red Sore where the serpent bit does not like my salty flavor.
Nasty little attitude there.

I grew up in a Catholic neighborhood.. Almost all my friends were Catholic. Played CYO dances. I liked the ones who loved life.
 
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Word play. I've had that same discussion with Rc's and don't care to do it again.

Stop. You are making yourself look foolish with such semantics.

I do know the whole truth. Your gnosis does not interest me.

Refreshing spiritual drink... Things go better with "Epignosis!"
 
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