Hey, A&E, you want to have kids like I tolds you to?....first you must sin and disobey me.

[Aaron32]

Because God told them in an UNFALLEN STATE.....to be fruitful and multiply.

But as is shown an unfallen state doesn't make us immune to Satan's temptations.

God didn't tell them that in order to be fruitful and multiply you guys must disobey me....

That's true, but Eve partook of the fruit because of Satan's beguilement, - not motivated to have children.
And then how was Adam supposed to multiply if Eve was cast out but he wasn't?

It would be sinful for God to have instructed them to sin....which is why the mormon belief is evil and Satanic.

Again, Adam and Eve didn't have a knowledge of good and evil. they could only think in terms of life and death.
You're the one reading in to the text that death is inherently sinful.

 

[Aaron32]

By believing the Bible we know God's righteousness.

So in context of the actual question asked, identify in the Bible A&E could have had children prior to the fall.

 

[Janice Bower]

Well, maybe your understanding of "Mormonism" is different from my understanding.


this is an important distinction:

• what does "Follow the Prophet" mean to you?

Follow Joseph Smith and his successors. But God trumps Mormonism! He already gave us His word, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Hebrews 1:1-2, Proverbs 30:6...

If it's contrary to "Trust in the Lord" then obviously God led you in the right direction. That makes perfect sense.
This is why I continually go back to defining what "doctrine" is.

I don't view Mormon "doctrine" as @Markk does (or did while he was a member), regarding the GA's as Gods, believing every word that drops from their mouths was doctrine. I certainly don't believe they will save me. I viewed them as mouthpieces only as they spoke by the Holy Ghost.

I know what you say you believe. You still support lies of Joseph Smith. You still deny the true God.

Thus, I can follow the prophet AND Trust in the Lord. To me, there's no conflict. But I understand how that could have been the case for you.

Your "Lord" is not the true God.

Are you humble enough to recognize your own bias?

Are you humble enough to know that I believe in the true God and don't have to call my faith in Him a shortcoming?

 

[Aaron32]

The bible doesn't address that...

Exactly!

Where does the bible say the serpent would have tried again and again if he failed the first time?

Why wouldn't he.
We know that Satan hasn't given up so far. It stands to reason that would have been the case, unless you can show evidence that Satan simply gives up and goes away. It's not like Satan has much else to do so....

According to you the kids wouldn't exist without the fall....now you present them as existing with no fall.

I'm playing out YOUR postulation of children being born in the garden.
Your claiming it's all Adam's fault and everything should be blamed on Adam.
I'm illustrating that more than just Adam led to the fall. (the serpent and the tree itself).
If this wasn't God's plan, then why did he permit the serpent of the garden, or the tree? I'm trying to understand your "ideal" narrative, but you're coming up empty handed.

So what????

Yes, my sentiments toward this entire argument.
If you want to believe that knowing good and evil an essential step in our spiritual journey, then go ahead. I choose to believe otherwise.
But stop claiming things as facts when you have no direct evidence.

 

[Aaron32]

Follow Joseph Smith and his successors.

Which means what to us presently? Please identify the list of things given that mormons should do as instructed in the last general conference.

But God trumps Mormonism!

An irrelevant rant in context of the discussion.

He already gave us His word, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Hebrews 1:1-2, Proverbs 30:6...

2 Ne phi 29: 10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.

Prov. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. <---this is good advice. Maybe you shouldn't be adding your own interpretation of scripture and claiming it's 'God's word'. If you're going to accuse me, stop giving me your opinion and cite scripture. Thanks!

i know what you say you believe. You still support lies of Joseph Smith. You still deny the true God.

Based on what? These comments of broad generalities are rather useless.

Your "Lord" is not the true God.

Simply being argumentative. Prove it.

Are you humble enough to know that I believe in the true God and don't have to call my faith in Him a shortcoming?

I'm not calling your faith in God a shortcoming.
I'm call your condemning setting yourself up as a light and the ultimate discerner of truth and falsehood in order to condemn others a shortcoming, and a work of the flesh. (FYI - Strife is a work of the flesh (Gal 5:20) )
If you're going to condemn me, atleast be more specific and constructive.
Just because you don't believe Joseph Smith, doesn't mean we ALL must agree with you and will therefore burn in hell. Get over yourself.

 

[CrowCross]

Exactly!

Why wouldn't he.
We know that Satan hasn't given up so far. It stands to reason that would have been the case, unless you can show evidence that Satan simply gives up and goes away. It's not like Satan has much else to do so....


I'm playing out YOUR postulation of children being born in the garden.
Your claiming it's all Adam's fault and everything should be blamed on Adam.
I'm illustrating that more than just Adam led to the fall. (the serpent and the tree itself).
If this wasn't God's plan, then why did he permit the serpent of the garden, or the tree? I'm trying to understand your "ideal" narrative, but you're coming up empty handed.


Yes, my sentiments toward this entire argument.
If you want to believe that knowing good and evil an essential step in our spiritual journey, then go ahead. I choose to believe otherwise.
But stop claiming things as facts when you have no direct evidence.

If you want to continue to teach the satanic aspects of mormonism...have at it.

 

[Aaron32]

If you want to continue to teach the satanic aspects of mormonism...have at it.

I'll consider it 'satanic' when you actually prove it as such.

 

[CrowCross]

I'll consider it 'satanic' when you actually prove it as such.

LOL....wake up.....mormonism showed it is Satanic when they said Adam and Eve had to sin against God their creator if they wanted to have children.

You do now you can be freed from the mormon satanic belief?

 

[Aaron32]

LOL....wake up.....mormonism showed it is Satanic when they said Adam and Eve had to sin against God their creator if they wanted to have children.

You do now you can be freed from the mormon satanic belief?

You never proved that. It doesn't say that anywhere.

 

[Janice Bower]

Which means what to us presently? Please identify the list of things given that mormons should do as instructed in the last general conference.

I've been there. Followers of false gods and prophets listen to general conferences by false teachers who try to convince people they are following the True God. Satan is thrilled.

An irrelevant rant in context of the discussion.

Call it whatever you like.

2 Ne phi 29: 10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

Sounds very much like Joseph Smith!

Believe the Bible instead:
"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:6

"7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21

Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.

Off topic.

Prov. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. <---this is good advice. Maybe you shouldn't be adding your own interpretation of scripture and claiming it's 'God's word'. If you're going to accuse me, stop giving me your opinion and cite scripture. Thanks!

Scripture is rejected by Mormons who prefer Joseph Smith's lies.

Based on what? These comments of broad generalities are rather useless.

Simply being argumentative. Prove it.

You came here for what reason? My comments are not broad generalities. You're grasping at the air in a supposed attempt to promote Mormonism. We need never prove hat the Bible is true. God does that.

I'm not calling your faith in God a shortcoming.
I'm call your condemning setting yourself up as a light and the ultimate discerner of truth and falsehood in order to condemn others a shortcoming, and a work of the flesh. (FYI - Strife is a work of the flesh (Gal 5:20) )

I am hated for Christ's sake. JESUS is the Light. Any light reflected in my life belongs to HIM.

Strife is only an accusation. Joseph Smith desired strife when he lied that he had a vision in a grove of trees.

If you're going to condemn me, atleast be more specific and constructive.
Just because you don't believe Joseph Smith, doesn't mean we ALL must agree with you and will therefore burn in hell. Get over yourself.

No one on earth has to agree with me! No one! I am not God and will NEVER be God!

Glory to God in the highest!

 

[Janice Bower]

Again, Adam and Eve didn't have a knowledge of good and evil. they could only think in terms of life and death.
You're the one reading in to the text that death is inherently sinful.

Death was the CONSEQUENCE of their sins: physical death and spiritual death. Death isn't sinful.

Christ DIED for our sins.

 

[CrowCross]

You never proved that. It doesn't say that anywhere.

Face palm ....OK, whatever you say.

 

[Janice Bower]

So in context of the actual question asked, identify in the Bible A&E could have had children prior to the fall.

God is always righteous and never instructs anyone to sin.


Even fictitious Nephi agreed that humans can obey:

Book of Mormon, I Nephi 3

[7] And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

 

[Aaron32]

No one on earth has to agree with me! No one! I am not God and will NEVER be God!

Agreed. I think this is the only point of your post that matters.

Glory to God in the highest!

Amen!

 

[Aaron32]

Death was the CONSEQUENCE of their sins: physical death and spiritual death. Death isn't sinful.

Christ DIED for our sins.

Yes. God is all-knowing, and all-powerful.
I highly doubt Adam eating the fruit surprised God. It was all part of his plan.

 

[Aaron32]

God is always righteous and never instructs anyone to sin.

That's the point Janice. God never did instruct anyone to sin, and yet sin is a vital part of understanding, so that we may the joy of righteousness and the misery of wickedness, that we (hopefully) develop heart that actually loves God, not just be mindless robots in following God's commands.

Even fictitious Nephi agreed that humans can obey:

Book of Mormon, I Nephi 3

[7] And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

Yes. That's true. The solution for deliverance is prayer (see D&C 10:5), but prayer wasn't introduced until Gen 4:26.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes. God is all-knowing, and all-powerful.
I highly doubt Adam eating the fruit surprised God. It was all part of his plan.

Gods intention were for Adam to sin against Him by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil....so Adam could be fruitful and multiply?