How Anti-mormonism Turns Faith Into Used Chewing Gum

[Aaron32]

So let me get this straight...
We have a perspective too limited to be able to correct Mormons...
So that must mean...
Mormons likewise have a perspective too limited to be able to correct (true) Christians.
Would you agree?

Yes, we all see through a glass darkly. In the end, we are to be charitable and peacemakers. We can agree to disagree and leave it to God.

Or is this simply more of your stupid game-playing to argue that we can't correct you, but you can correct us?

Nope. I'm not game playing. That's your perception of me. I consider truth a neutral ground neither of us can claim, but simply observe.

Well, that's a problem... Because Mormons refuse to accept correction.

That's not true, they just don't conform to the way you want them to. There's a difference.

Or did you mean that you get to "correct" us, but we can't "correct" you?

Nope. Projection

Let me explain something to you.
There are no "teachers" here, and no "students".
Neither of us accepts the ohter as being a "teacher".
So we are simply people with different beliefs, who are sharing them with each other (and mostly Mormonism, since this is the MORMONISM discussion forum).

Right. I'm glad you can admit that. Maybe you should keep that in mind more often.

Don't worry, though... We have no expectation of you accepting the truth.

That's not for you to judge. Just because I don't conform to your beliefs doesn't mean I haven't accepted truth. Gain some humility.

As long as you are dead in your trespasses and sins, and until you are regenerated by God and given a new heart, you will continue to reject God's truth.

Ditto.

Well, let me explain something else to you as well..

Says the one who just recognized:
"There are no 'teachers' here, and no 'students'.
Neither of us accepts the ohter as being a 'teacher'."
How quickly we forget, eh?

I watch a lot of camera footage of a group calling themselves, "1st Amendment Auditors", but who everyone else calls, "Frauditors". What they do is follow cops around and record them, and interfere with their traffic stops and other business, and they try to create conflict so their YT accounts will make money. So they engage the cops, insult them, yell at them, call them, "pigs", etc. etc., and then when the cops threaten to arrest them, and have to move to needing to use force since they constantly disobey lawful orders, the frauditors, yell out, "de-escalate! You're supposed to de-escalate!" Well, that doesn't really work when the other side is intentionally escalating the situation.

And that's what Mormons do.

That's interesting proposition considering Mormons come here to DEFEND their beliefs.
We've given our responses to your attacks, there's no compromise to be had. You leave your witness, that should be the end of it, but then you keep on attacking. You guys are the instigators here, not us. The board is designed for Mormons to defend their religion, and any attack on your beliefs is "off topic". Thus, your side has complete control on the level of contention on this board.

They escalate the situation, they insult Christians, they try to "ridicule" them with comments about "invisible god", etc., and then you come along claiming we should be "peacemakers". Sorry, that doesn't work. As long as Mormons continue to cause contention in the forums, it is impossible for us to be "peacemakers".

The fruit of the Spirit is self-control. Blaming your behavior on the bad behavior of others is no excuse. That's why Jesus told us to turn the other cheek. By the enable grace given by the Holy Ghost, it IS possible.

The other problem is that Mormons are not "children of God". This is not meant as an insult, it is simply a statement of fact.

Says the self-declared "arbiter of truth".
1 Cor 8:3 says "3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him", not "3 But if any man love God, the same is known of Theo".

You have not been regenerated, and you not only do not worship the true God, but you mock Him.

Can you prove that? To my knowledge, I just mock you, and those that think the speak for God at my expense. Are you declaring yourself God now?

Anyone who thinks "ridiculing" is a fruit of the Spirit is most certainly NOT a "child of God".

IMO, anyone proclaiming themselves as the "arbiter of truth" is worthy of being ridiculed as such, because that's what it is...utterly ridiculous.

Look at yourself! You think you can proclaim who's regenerated or not on the basis of who agrees with you or not. Not to mention, I have proved you wrong on a "Bible alone" standard, as well as a secular standard that monotheism is a Greco-Roman standard, not originally found in Old Testament texts prior to 700-600 BC. Seriously, my friend, find some humility. You're just kicking against the pricks at this point.

 

[Aaron32]

Are you a peacemaker?

I'm defending my beliefs. I suppose peace won't happen until you stop attacking us, or simply come with us in good faith rather than be condescending.

Are we to embrace false teachings for the sake of peace?

Nope. But we can recognize where each side is coming from, and respectfully agree to disagree.

I have never wished harm to any non-Christian. Your judgment of Christians doesn't promote peace.

Where did I claim that you wished to harm non-Christian? You shoving words in my mouth doesn't promote peace. If you want peace, quote me directly, and focus on what I actually said.

We don't both turn to the Triune God. So does being a peacemaker mean we will always agree?

Nope. But I can understand why you believe the doctrine of the Trinity. Can you understand why I reject it? It's ok if we disagree.

Which one of us is going to bring world peace?

Hopefully both of us.

 

[Theo1689]

Yes, we all see through a glass darkly. In the end, we are to be charitable and peacemakers.

And how is you constantly making false claims about me anything close to "charitable and peacemakers"?

How is falsly accusing me of allegedly having the "omniscience of God" (something I have NEVER claimed) accomplish your phony goal?

We can agree to disagree and leave it to God.

And so how does proudly claiming I gave the "wrong answer" anything close to "agreeing to disagree"?

You need to put your OWN house in order, before presuming to criticize anyone else.
Look in a mirror, remember?
Three fingers pointing back at you, remember?
Pot and kettle, remember?

That's not for you to judge. Just because I don't conform to your beliefs doesn't mean I haven't accepted truth. Gain some humility.

You don't even know what "humility" is (and your posts reflect that).
You think "humility" means me telling you your false teachings are true.
That is NOT "humility".

"Humility" does NOT mean demandin others stroke your ego.

Says the one who just recognized:
"There are no 'teachers' here, and no 'students'.
Neither of us accepts the ohter as being a 'teacher'."
How quickly we forget, eh?

<sigh>
Why must you constantly be so insulting?!
If you argree that netiher of us are the other's teacher, then YOU need to realize that it is NOT your place to "teach" me "humility", and especially insulting me when you do it.

We've given our responses to your attacks, there's no compromise to be had. You leave your witness, that should be the end of it, but then you keep on attacking. You guys are the instigators here, not us.

<Chuckle>
Trying to play the victim, now?
That's a laugh.
If you find it to be so "oppressive" here, then nobody's forcing you to stay.

The board is designed for Mormons to defend their religion, and any attack on your beliefs is "off topic".

Um, that's how "topics" work.
We discuss Mormonism in the Mormonism forum.
We discuss the Trinity in the Trinity forum.

If you don't like that, you can take your concern to the administration, or you can level. There are a number of options available to you. But if you want to create your own rules, then you can't do it here. You would have to start up your own website.

Thus, your side has complete control on the level of contention on this board.

Hardly.
It's the Mormons who constantly escalate the contention, and we can't do anything about it.

The fruit of the Spirit is self-control. Blaming your behavior on the bad behavior of others is no excuse. That's why Jesus told us to turn the other cheek. By the enable grace given by the Holy Ghost, it IS possible.

So show us all how "turning the other cheek" works.

Btw, I love how you claim I'm at fault for reacting to your bad behaviour.
That's an admission of your own bad behaviour.
So maybe you should try to take care of THAT, instead of exploiting it to insult others.

Says the self-declared "arbiter of truth".

<sigh>
GIve it a rest.
You set me up with that stupid question in the first place, and you IGNORED my answer, "if words have any meaning".
You're only continuing to make yourself look foolish.

1 Cor 8:3 says "3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him", not "3 But if any man love God, the same is known of Theo".

Do you not understand how increidbly blasphemous it is to corrupt the word of God?

Can you prove that? To my knowledge, I just mock you, and those that think the speak for God at my expense. Are you declaring yourself God now?

<sigh>
Can youi please LOSE the false and insulting accusations?
It is SO incredibliy childiish of you.

I NEVER claimed to be God.
I NEVER clamed to be omniscient.

IMO, anyone proclaiming themselves as the "arbiter of truth" is worthy of being ridiculed as such, because that's what it is...utterly ridiculous.

Is that why you set me up, so you could mock me?
Is that why you ignored my answer ("if words have any meaning"), so you could mock me/
You're only continuing to make yourself look foolish.

Look at yourself! You think you can proclaim who's regenerated or not on the basis of who agrees with you or not.

And that's completely false, of course.
I have NEVER claimed that.

Not to mention, I have proved you wrong on a "Bible alone" standard,

You shouldn't "mention" it, becuase it's NOT true.

as well as a secular standard that monotheism is a Greco-Roman standard,

False again.
You made a false claim multiple times, but you have never supported it.

not originally found in Old Testament texts prior to 700-600 BC. Seriously, my friend, find some humility. You're just kicking against the pricks at this point.

I'm not your slave.
You think "Humility" is rejecting the truth in favour of your false claims.
Sorry, I can't do that.
I love God too much to do that.

 

[Theo1689]

To my knowledge, I just mock you,

Thank you for the admission.
You do realize you just admitted that you're not a follower of Christ, right?

So drinking a cup of coffee... TERRIBLE sin.
But openly mocking a child of God... Perfectly okay, according to Mormonism.

 

[Theo1689]

Look at yourself!

I am prettty handsome, aren't I?

You think you can proclaim who's regenerated or not on the basis of who agrees with you or not.

Of course, I have NEVER made that claim, and I don't believe it.
But I think I need to address it.

I have NEVER claimed I can tell everyone who's regenerated or not.
And I have NEVER claimed that any judgment is based on "who agrees with [me] or not".
You are so off-base it's not even funny.
But you've demonstrated that you don't care about truth, as long as it's a good "insult".

First of all, there are unregenerated people in most Christian churches.
I can't tell who they are, because as the Bible teachs, they are wolves in sheep's clothing.
They "act" like Christians, so it's hard to tell.

Secondly, It's not based on on whether they "agree with me" or not.
There are Christians who beileve in infant baptism. I don't. But I don't doubt that they are regenerated.
There are Christians who believe that our hymns should be limited to the Psalter. I disagree. But I don't doubt that they are regenerated.

Christians have a charity and grace that is (sadly) clearly absent from Mormonism.

We believe:

"In essentials, unity;​

In non-essentials, liberty;​

In all things, charity."​

Now, if someone denies the deity of Christ, or the resurrection, then they are clearly not regenerated, and they don't believe God. But if someone disagrees with me on something that's not essential, then I show charity. As you so PROUDLY pointed out recently, "we know in part". And maybe God wants us to only sing from the Psalter. Maybe God does want us to baptize infants. I don't believe salvation is achieved by getting a perfect score on a theology test. So we're going to get things wrong. Even me, who you have FALSELY and UNCHARITABLY claimed as thinking I"m "omniscient". I most certainly have some things wrong, I simply don't know what they are yet.

Now, I don't think it's shocking to know that Richard Dawkins is not a regenerated Christian.
I don't think it's shocking to know that Charles Manson was a regenerated Christian.
Jeffrey Dahmer, OTOH, had a conversion experience in prison, and I have no reason to doubt it. I"d be happy to see him in heaven, as a converted and repentant sinner.

(to be continued...)

 

[Theo1689]

(continuing...)

Now let's talk about Mormons.
Mormons reject the God of the Bible.
Mormons reject the Christ of the Bible.
Mormons reject the atonement of the Bible.
Mormons reject the gospel of the Bible.

In my mind, Mormons while Mormons proclaim they are (or "can be") "gods", and proclaim "plural gods", I consider you as functional atheists. You don't believe in the concept of deity. You don't believe in an actual god. That's why people like Richard mock the idea of a God who can create ex nihilo, or who is invisible. You simply think "deity" is a position of authority, like a company accountant or CEO or CFO. You guys simply worship an "exalted man" of your own imagination. You don't know the true God of the Bible.

And between that, all your insults, and all your false accusations about what I've allegedly "claimed" (eg. "omniscience"), and your pride and eagerness to "mock" me, and to shout it from the rooftops, it's pretty obvious that you're not regenerated. You are perfectly free to disagree, even though I don't think "regeneration" is something you even recognize in your theology.

 

[Janice Bower]

I'm defending my beliefs. I suppose peace won't happen until you stop attacking us, or simply come with us in good faith rather than be condescending.

Your opinion is to accuse the person who disagrees with you of being condescending instead of being truthful or helpful.

Nope. But we can recognize where each side is coming from, and respectfully agree to disagree.

God did not say that. I don't agree that I should agree to suggestions by opposers/enemies of Christ.
I haven't aimed a gun at you or petitioned that you can't post here. You are condescending of Christians and make a habit of criticizing us; that is not brotherly love. Your religion is opposed to Christianity instead of admiring and praising God for it.

Where did I claim that you wished to harm non-Christian?

I NEVER said you claimed that. I am informing you.

You shoving words in my mouth doesn't promote peace.

Your accusation that I shoved words in your mouth is not truthful. You are not promothing peace. by making false accusations.

If you want peace, quote me directly, and focus on what I actually said.

Ditto!

Nope. But I can understand why you believe the doctrine of the Trinity. Can you understand why I reject it? It's ok if we disagree.

I know we disagree. This is a Christian site and your religion has been opposed to Chrittianity since it's inception. You don't like the difference and are not here to endorse biblical Christianty. You are not here to promote truth anymore that your founder was or would be.

Hopefully both of us.

Neither of us would bring world peacel

 

[Janice Bower]

I'm defending my beliefs. I suppose peace won't happen until you stop attacking us, or simply come with us in good faith rather than be condescending.

Nope. But we can recognize where each side is coming from, and respectfully agree to disagree.

What is the Mormon description of respectful disagreement?

"The gathering of Israel consists of joining the true church; of coming to a knowledge of the true God and of his saving truths; and of worshiping him in the congregations of the Saints in all nations and among all peoples. . . " (in Conference Report, Apr. 1973, p. 6; also Ensign, July 1973, p. 4).
Search These Commandments, c. 1984, p.145

1 Nephi 14:10 (Mormon Scripture by founder Joseph Smith)
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 130 (Mormon scripture by Joseph Smith)
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s. . .

 

[Janice Bower]

. . . .

IMO, anyone proclaiming themselves as the "arbiter of truth" is worthy of being ridiculed as such, because that's what it is...utterly ridiculous.

What of Joseph Smith?

Doctrine and Covenants 1
1–7, The voice of warning is to all people; 8–16, Apostasy and wickedness precede the Second Coming; 17–23, Joseph Smith is called to restore to earth the Lord’s truths and powers; 24–33, The Book of Mormon is brought forth and the true Church is established; 34–36, Peace will be taken from the earth; 37–39, Search these commandments.

Doctrine and Covenants 1

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on November 1, 1831, during a special conference of elders of the Church, held at Hiram, Ohio. Many revelations had been received from the Lord prior to this time, and the compilation of these for publication in book form was one of the...

www.churchofjesuschrist.org