You just rejected 5 point Calvinism
Limited Atonement - Forgiveness of Sins
- Thread starter Theo1689
- Start date
RCM
Active member
Agreed, that is what John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, and Hebrews 9:26 teaches, but 'Limited Atonement' doctrine and theology doesn't agree with that Biblical theology
RCM
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
SIMPLE FACT:
The majority of humanity (probably) WILL NOT BE BORN AGAIN, and will perish in HELL for eternity.
Whether or not the "Calvinist theological system" defines properly the conditions under which that fact exist is simply unimportant. It's nothing but "theology".
No I don't. What I ask is for anyone to show where the concept of God being a Trinity is taught in the Bible. Where is God ever described as a Trinity, three in one, three persons of the same essence, or anything similar? Jesus Christ said he was a man (John 8:40), Peter said he was a man (Acts 2:22), Paul said he was a man (Rom 5:15; 1 Tim 2:5) and more. Jesus also said his Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3), that he was sent BY God and that he learned FROM God. Paul said that "for us there is but one God, the Father (1 Cor 8:6).
But the Trinity is not the topic of this forum.
Since I do not demand and have never demanded "exact words," your assertion is false.
Another false assertion. I do not believe in universal atonement. Not everyone will be saved, but it's not because God does not want everyone to be saved. He gave people free will. Many people choose to reject the gospel.
Another false assertion. I have never "demoted salvation to mere 'availability.'"
See John 3:16. Also 1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9; etc..
I have not twisted any of Jesus' or the Bible's words.
Yes. That's what it says.
Non-Jews could be saved too.
That's how Calvinists have to interpret that verse. I disagree with that interpretation.
You're saying "pretty sure" now. That's a change..
Where does God say that all men will be saved? He doesn't.
It hasn't happened and it won't happen. Again, where did God say all men will be saved?
No they wouldn't. God gave people free will. The ability to choose. Many people reject God.
Again, you do not understand, or refuse to accept, that God gave people free will.
That's the Calvinist interpretation, not mine. You apply the same thinking to 2 Peter 3:9, asserting it means that God is not willing that any BELIEVER should perish.
I assert that is exactly what Calvinists are doing. They change "all" in 1 Tim 2:4 to not mean "all," "any" in 2 Peter 3:9 to mean "any believer," etc.
Again, that HAS to be the Calvinist interpretation of that verse.
People who are already saved do not need to worry about perishing, and they have already come to repentance. The "any" in 2 Pet 3:9 refers to anyone, people who have not come to repentance.
God set before Israel "life and death, blessing and cursing," and told them to choose. Do you believe that the Israelites had free will, the ability to choose, but we don't?
Are you going to explain how you think the context affects what Eze 33:11 is saying?
No. Again, are you claiming the Jews had the free-will ability to to turn from their evil ways, but nobody else does?
God is just. People who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel will be raised at the white throne judgment and judged by their works, how they lived their lives.
Here's a LINK for you.
Read Jn 3:18.
Thanks. I am familiar with the scripture at that link and how Trinitarians understand them.
I disagree.
LOL
Don't you even know your own theology
it insists Christ died for the elect alone
Amyraldeanism is 4 point Calvinism
A rejection of limited atonement
Theo1689
Well-known member
Yet you brought it up.
Really?!
Congratulations!
If you reject universal atonement, then that must mean that you believe in a limited (ie. non-universal) atonement.
You good little Calvinist, you!
So tell us, how is salvation "available" to someone if Christ didn't atone for their sins?
Explain that one to us.
"Free will" is unBiblical.
<sigh>
More random citations that don't prove your claims, that you can't even be bothered quoting, let alone exegeting.
I've already address 1 Tim. 2:4 and 2 Pet. 3:9, and in both cases you IGNORED the context.
I was throwing you a bone, to not rub your nose in it.You're saying "pretty sure" now. That's a change..
In point of fact, I"m 99.9999% sure.
But that's God's WILL, according to your "proof-text".
It's what God WANTS.
Why is your god so impotent that he's unable to get what He wants?
My God gets all that He wants.
Maybe you should jettison your false impotent god, and embrace the God of the Bible?
He didn't.
But that's how we know that "all men" cannot mean, "every single individual".
That's not what John 1:13 says.
That's not what John 6:44 says.
That's not what John 8:34 says.
That's not what Rom. 6:16-18 says.
That's not what Eph. 2:1-5 says.
That's not what Col. 2:13 says.
I refuse to accept it because it's not true.
<sigh>
Bearing false witness is a sin.
You need to repent.
No, the Jews didn't have "free will" any more than we do.
I know you disagree. NOw I also know you've been given the proof you requested.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
People have to hear the gospel before they can decide to believe it.
Rom 1:
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: