Original Sin...

Theo1689 said:
This is how you argue:

"The Bible doesn't say you're saved, Stephen. Therefore you aren't saved."

Do you think that's a valid argument?
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I don't think it is a valid argument, which is why I didn't make it. Perhaps read the argument being made would improve your understanding.



Let me ask you: Do you think idiotic strawmen of other people's questions is a Christ like way to engage in discussion?


Theo1689 said:
Define the word, "curse".
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Please consult a dictionary.

Whatever definition of the word you wish to apply, God said it was present for two items (serpent and earth) and didn't mention it with Adam and Eve.
 
Carbon said:
When people believe what they want to believe and see what they want to see, it becomes the norm.

The obvious isn’t their norm.
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Original Sin is one of the biggest reasons Calvinists/Arminians differ from Liberal Christians; but another huge reason is because people just do NOT want to let the Bible be the Bible...

I know they say we won't let the Bible be the Bible, but we are the Compatibalists...
 
American Gothic said:
he died spiritually
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I have no idea what "died spiritually" means as this is absent from the bible. Death is defined in the bible and if you are operating with some other definition than the one that comes from the bible, please note that it did not come from the bible.

American Gothic said:
his descendants since are born spiritually dead
and with a rebel Sin nature
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I have no idea what a "rebel sin nature" is, as there is no mention of a change of nature in Adam in the relevant passage.


You appear to be asserting random things that are absent from scripture.
 
ReverendRV said:
see what I say about Original Sin? Original Sin makes the biggest difference between Arminians/Calvinists, and Traditionalists/Liberals...
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some don't want to talk about Sin

I might get accused of taking sins to lightly
but I just think they are already forgiven

it's unbelief and Sin nature that are keeping people
out of a relationship with God at this point
He has saving relationship with sinners who believe
what He has said/done and trust Him
 
Stephen said:
I have no idea what "died spiritually" means
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Adam lost the indwelling of the Holy Spirit
which he had from his creation

in New covenant relationship God promises to put His Spirit within us

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you..." Ezekiel 36
 
Stephen said:
I have no idea what "died spiritually" means as this is absent from the bible. Death is defined in the bible and if you are operating with some other definition than the one that comes from the bible, please note that it did not come from the bible.



I have no idea what a "rebel sin nature" is, as there is no mention of a change of nature in Adam in the relevant passage.


You appear to be asserting random things that are absent from scripture.
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These are the Theology Boards; not the Relevant Passage Boards...

We are talking about Theology, and that's okay. A Good Systematic Theology is AS true as any relevant Passage in the Bible...
 
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ReverendRV said:
Original Sin is one of the biggest reasons Calvinists/Arminians differ from Liberal Christians; but another huge reason is because people just do NOT want to let the Bible be the Bible...

I know they say we won't let the Bible be the Bible, but we are the Compatibalists...
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Seen that term batted around here.

What do you guys mean by that term?

And .....

Why do you think you are or are not Compatibalist
 
American Gothic said:
Adam lost the indwelling of the Holy Spirit
which he had from his creation
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The loss of the indwelling of the holy spirit isn't recorded anywhere. Changes are described in Adam, but losing the holy spirit isn't one of them.


American Gothic said:
in New covenant relationship God promises to put His Spirit within us

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you..." Ezekiel 36
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Let's read the passage:

24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.​

Ezekiel doesn't relate this back to Adam, and he doesn't accuse the whole world of having a heart of stone. This is directed towards a specific group of people.
 
Slyzr said:
Seen that term batted around here.

What do you guys mean by that term?

And .....

Why do you think you are or are not Compatibalist
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Compatibalists agree with All Scripture at face value. It would be like believing the Verses which say Jesus is God, and also believing the Verses which say Jesus is a Man. Christians have no problem believe both sides of this argument, but they have problems believing both sides of the argument when it comes to Calvinism. For the sake of simplicity, they like the Arminian Verses but do not like the Calvinist Verses. Compatibalists would look Arminian and Calvinist Verses; that's all...

Compatibalists believe both sides of the argument. Non Calvinists show us a Verse, and we say "Amen!". We show them a Verse but they say "No, pay attention to my Verse". We just pay attention to all of the Verses...
 
ReverendRV said:
Compatibalists agree with All Scripture at face value. It would be like believing the Verses which say Jesus is God, and also believing the Verses which say Jesus is a Man. Christians have no problem believe both sides of this argument, but they have problems believing both sides of the argument when it comes to Calvinism. For the sake of simplicity, they like the Arminian Verses but do not like the Calvinist Verses. Compatibalists would look Arminian and Calvinist Verses; that's all...

Compatibalists believe both sides of the argument. Non Calvinists show us a Verse, and we say "Amen!". We show them a Verse but they say "No, pay attention to my Verse". We just pay attention to all of the Verses...
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Can you define the term for me.
 
ReverendRV said:
These are the Theology Boards; not the Relevant Passage Boards...

We are talking about Theology, and that's okay. A Good Systematic Theology is AS true as any relevant Passage in the Bible...
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Presuming we are both protestants, I hope that theology comes from the relevant passages and relevant passages are brought to bear when discussing them.
 
Stephen said:
Presuming we are both protestants, I hope that theology comes from the relevant passages and relevant passages are brought to bear when discussing them.
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You are a Protestant?

I'm a Reformed Evangelical Independent Fundamental Baptist. I worship at a Southern Baptist Church...
 
Gomer said:
Sin is not something inherited, one man is not accountable for another man's sin, the soul that sinneth it shall die meaning wach man is accountable for his own sins....."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression..." Rom 5:14. If death is a result of all inheriting or being held accountable for Adam's sin then all die as a result of that one, same exact sin, yet Paul makes a distinction in showing people died as a result of sinning a sin not after the similitutde of Adam's sin, they died as a result of their own sinning.

You cite Rom 5:12 that ends by NOT say 'because all inherited Adam's sin', but instead ends by saying "because all sinned" which shows personal culpability in people choosing to sin different and various sin from Adam's sin.
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Your logic doesn't work. Death reigned regardless of personal sin. Even among those that didn't sin after the likeness of Adam's sin.

You have to ask the question, if a person doesn't sin, then will they still die? The answer is yes. Death is an enemy. An enemy that is only conquered by the Lord Jesus Christ.


Gomer said:
In the first 3 chapters of Romans Paul goes to great length to prove all, Jew and Gentile have sinned. In Rom 3 Paul cites many verse from the OT that proves the Jews were sinners as much as the Gentiles. Yet no where in these chapters does Paul even remotely elude to the idea that all, Jew and Gentile, were innately born sinners. Instead Paul proves they are sinners by citing transgressions Jews and Gentiles have committed for sin is transgression of the law (1 Jn 3:4) and not just an idea or substance that is passed between people.
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Paul didn't know all Jews and all Gentiles. He wasn't witnessing to firsthand knowledge of their sin. He was witnessing to the inevitableness of the sin of all men. All equally guilty.

Gomer said:
Adam nor Eve were created sinners but created with a free will and told and knew what God's law was to not eat of a certain tree. They chose to sin by eating of that tree and then by committing that transgression they became sinners. Likewise we today follow in the steps of Adam and Eve in that we are not created/born sinners but have a free will and have been given God's word (Bible) and can learn and know God's law but then choose to sin against that law and then we become sinners. Since sinning is a willful choice, (not necessary due to how one is innately born), then God can rightly, justly condemn the choices man makes for himself.
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We carry the sin of Adam and Eve in our own bodies. We are born in weakness. Do you deny this?
 
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christ_undivided said:
Are we not the offspring of Adam?

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Man gained independence from God in his sinful action.

I don't understand your reasoning. By one man sin entered this world and death by sin.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
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actually while though in this 'body' and its cursedness as flesh
are 'offspring' (horrible term) of adam...

His ones are born of Christ and dead to adam, is the point..
and all of us are will be rescued from here soon at Rapture
and not die in these bodies...

so no... His sons and daughters are not destined for the likeness of adam...
that's the whole point!!!

we will be with Christ in Paradise...for ever.
 
christ_undivided said:
Your logic doesn't work. Death reigned regardless of personal sin. Even among among that didn't sin after the likeness of Adam's sin.

You have to ask the question, if a person doesn't sin, then will they still die? The answer is yes. Death is an enemy is only conquered by the Lord Jesus Christ.




Paul didn't know all Jews and all Gentiles. He wasn't witnessing to firsthand knowledge of their sin. He was witnessing to the inevitableness of the sin of all men. All equally guilty.



We carry the sin of Adam and Eve in our own bodies. We are born in weakness. Do you deny this?
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this fleshbody (pauls term) IS sin.
 
His sons and daughters will be restored to the Eden body
lost because of Adam...
the original glorified body is His type of nature, not the current corrupt nature..
the original body of Eden we had is our new clothes.... : )
the Change is our restoration to paradise

we will have our Change in a twinkling and meet Christ on the Clouds.
 
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