Paul and Silas were asked "What must I DO to be saved." And they said BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Faith is not works.

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Theo1689 said:
How do you even know what "the word of God" even is?
You seem to have simply and ARBITRARILY chosen the KJV, among all the translations available.
That seems incredibly random and unreliable.



Nobody cares.
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Our troll is quickly looking up definitions of words...
 
SavedByTheLord said:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I DO to be saved?
31 And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16:30-31.

So believing is not a work. It is something a person must do. Works are works. Like sacrament and infant baptism, etc

Jesus Christ the Lord agrees.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. - John 6:47

There is a great deception that is used again Ephesians 2:8-9
Here is the passage.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9

The deception starts with call faith "works" ( faith = works)
Now it says with the substitution:
By grace are ye saved through faith not of faith ...

Since through faith and not of faith cancel out the new deception is
By grace are ye saved.

The final deception is to redefine grace as stuff you get by sacraments like infant baptism.

So the final deception is
By infant baptism are ye saved.

Now I certainly would not claim to be an expert in Calvin's writings or Luther's writings or in Reformed Theory. And I would never waste all my time studying all their writings. I just read and study the word of God.

But it does seem to be that Calvin and Luther and some if not most Reformed practice infant baptism.

Have they been deceived by the deception I have noted above.

I leave it to you to discuss. I will sit back and watch and I may do some research into their writings.
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You're putting the cart before the horse (jn 6:44-66).
 
fltom said:
Hardly there is nothing about regeneration in John 6:44-46
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I never said there was, Tom, pay attention. I said the poster put the cart before the horse, in fact, he doesn't he even understand the horse (election, drawing) nor man's depravity, just as you don't.
 
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Howie said:
It's showcases itself as not Calvinism and is based on the "analogies" Leighton Flowers.
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Well as to the debate between Calvinism and Arminianism, I usually sit that out, I preach the gospel and tell people if they believe the gospel of Christ they will be saved. Some believe but most do not. If God the Father is drawing them to His crucified Son they may believe. So as to predestination, regeneration before faith, it does no matter when I preach the gospel which I feel compelled to do.

I do not believe in any works at all for salvation - not waste baptism, infant baptism, any sacrament, being good enough, trying to be good enough, keeping the law or the commandments, observed days, church membership.
I do not believe in losing salvation. There are too many scriptures which preach once saved by the Lord Jesu Christ, who does not make mistakes, always saved by the Lord Jesus Christ, who loses none of His sheep. How far can a saved person fall away? For sin, I believe some do, but I do not believe they are not saddened and ashamed of such. If a saved person does not feel such, not sure the Holy Spirit is in them. As to falling away to unbelief, that does seem like a stretch. The Devil can attack any saved person, but to fall away to unbelief, not sure I know of any that do. But some people claim to be saved, may be a wolf in sheep's clothing. or if ask enough they believed in another Jesus and another gosple and they were never saved at all. once saved all applies after a person in once saved.
I do not believe that God predestines all things, all lies and all evils. Men are tempted and because they have a sin nature and are a servant of sin, they will sin many times. If saved then that person is a new creature and is no longer a servant to sin. They are still in flesh and sin does still dwell in them but they are free to resist the temptation. I do believe in free will but many are the servant of sin and it is just like a dog that cannot help barking.
I do believe that God of course knows all things and so all things are foreknown. At the scale of empires and such, God may indeed predestine things.
Does God predestine who is gets saved and who does not? I do not believe that that is the case. God has foreknowledge. The best verse for how people get saved is in this passage which is why I preach the cross, Christ crucified. Paul wrote to consider what he says (writes) and the Lord give thee understanding in all things - see 2 Tim 2:7. Verses 18 and 21 are the key verses.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:17-24
 
SavedByTheLord said:
Does God predestine who is gets saved and who does not? I do not believe that that is the case. God has foreknowledge.
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The Bible uses both the terms "foreknow" (verb) and "foreknowledge" (noun). But those who are against predestination usually prefer the noun form, even when the verbal form is used (eg. Rom. 8:29-30), since in the verb form it explicitly denotes an ACTION that God does. "Foreknowledge", on the other hand, is frequently thought of as some "non-action", some attribute that God merely "has", without actually doing something. (Indeed, many anti-Calvinists refuse to explain how they think God has "foreknowledge", it's "just there".)

An important thing to study is that the compounds "foreknow" and "foreknowledge" are dependent on the root terms "know" and "knowledge". And in both Hebrew and Greek, there are three main connotations of these terms:

- factual information ("I know the Ten Commandments.")
- sexual relationship ("Adam knew his wife, and she conceived").
- non-sexual relationship ("depart from me, I NEVER knew you!")

And these connotations follow into the compound "fore-" terms.

BDAG:
προγινώσκω ("foreknow")
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29.

πρόγνωσις, εως, ἡ ("foreknowledge")
1. foreknowledge πρ. λαμβάνειν τελείαν receive complete foreknowledge 1 Cl 44:2.
2. predetermination, of God’s omniscient wisdom and intention Ac 2:23. κατὰ πρόγνωσιν θεοῦ πατρός destined by God the Father (NRSV) 1 Pt 1:2


UBS Lexicon:
προγινώσκω (aor. προέγνων) know already, know beforehand; choose from the beginning, choose beforehand

πρόγνωσις, εως f foreknowledge, purpose


Strong's:
προγινώσκω proginosko, prog-in-oce´-ko; from 4253 and 1097; to know beforehand, i.e. foresee: — foreknow (ordain), know (before).


Thayer:
πρόγνωσις; prognōsis, prognōseōs, hē (proginōskō);
1. foreknowledge: Judith 9:6; 11:19 (Plutarch, Lucian, Herodian).
2. forethought, prearrangement (see problepō): 1 Pet. 1:2; Acts 2:23 (but cf. proginōskō, and see Meyer on Acts, the passage cited).*
 
SavedByTheLord said:
Well as to the debate between Calvinism and Arminianism, I usually sit that out, I preach the gospel and tell people if they believe the gospel of Christ they will be saved. Some believe but most do not. If God the Father is drawing them to His crucified Son they may believe. So as to predestination, regeneration before faith, it does no matter when I preach the gospel which I feel compelled to do.

I do not believe in any works at all for salvation - not waste baptism, infant baptism, any sacrament, being good enough, trying to be good enough, keeping the law or the commandments, observed days, church membership.
I do not believe in losing salvation. There are too many scriptures which preach once saved by the Lord Jesu Christ, who does not make mistakes, always saved by the Lord Jesus Christ, who loses none of His sheep. How far can a saved person fall away? For sin, I believe some do, but I do not believe they are not saddened and ashamed of such. If a saved person does not feel such, not sure the Holy Spirit is in them. As to falling away to unbelief, that does seem like a stretch. The Devil can attack any saved person, but to fall away to unbelief, not sure I know of any that do. But some people claim to be saved, may be a wolf in sheep's clothing. or if ask enough they believed in another Jesus and another gosple and they were never saved at all. once saved all applies after a person in once saved.
I do not believe that God predestines all things, all lies and all evils. Men are tempted and because they have a sin nature and are a servant of sin, they will sin many times. If saved then that person is a new creature and is no longer a servant to sin. They are still in flesh and sin does still dwell in them but they are free to resist the temptation. I do believe in free will but many are the servant of sin and it is just like a dog that cannot help barking.
I do believe that God of course knows all things and so all things are foreknown. At the scale of empires and such, God may indeed predestine things.
Does God predestine who is gets saved and who does not? I do not believe that that is the case. God has foreknowledge. The best verse for how people get saved is in this passage which is why I preach the cross, Christ crucified. Paul wrote to consider what he says (writes) and the Lord give thee understanding in all things - see 2 Tim 2:7. Verses 18 and 21 are the key verses.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:17-24
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Thanks for that.
 
Howie said:
I never said there was, Tom, pay attention. I said the poster put the cart before the horse, in fact, he doesn't he even understand the horse (election, drawing) nor man's depravity, just as you don't.
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Sorry, your view of election is a fairy tale and not biblical.

Nowhere do we read of unconditional election to conversion (going from unbelief to belief)
 
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