When did I personally stigmatize you? If I did, my apologies.
The efficaciousness of the proclaimed Word of God to everyone everywhere.
- Thread starter Synergy
- Start date
Apology accepted.
Your deflections of all my statements that originate from me are mundane.
I'm not Pelagian so I cannot speak for them.
As for Bible-believing Christians like me, the OP I presented clearly elucidates the efficaciousness of the proclaimed Word of God which is diametrically opposed to Calvinism's pre-regeneration myths. You have yet to prove otherwise.
The argument is your; therefore, so are the mundane deflections
Your theology states otherwise.
Do you hold to total depravity, or reject it?
Stop appropriating my position against Pelagians
False. I don't believe that human beings can attain righteousness solely by their own efforts.
That's why I believe in the efficaciousness of the proclaimed Word of God which is diametrically opposed to Calvinism's pre-regeneration myths.
I sincerely could not care less about what you say or believe about Pelagians. You can take that to the bank.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Perhaps this is what you believe, yet at the same time the mud comes flying from the other side. There are a couple of them here that no matter what you show them your beliefs are (why we believe we are elect, for instance) they will continue to libel. But, they have to, because nothing true actually sticks, so they stay with the libelous claims and ignore our responses only to repeat the same libel.
THAT is mud-slinging.
Now, the slinging has not been as much of late due to a certain "vacation." There were a couple of others that are now banned permanently, or there would be more mud. These "two" turned an immediate 180 exactly at the same time the ring misleader did.
That was, well, quite interesting. It was duly noted.
Now, did you tell any of these to knock it off, or is your hate for Calvin causing you to misjudge and see posts through your lens of disdain? What I mean is, I don't see you as being truly concerned with the mud-slinging, until you percieve it coming from those you dislike.
As to your OP, wonderful Scriptures, of course, yet none of them prove your case. And? There is no such thing as "pre-regeneration" and that is an intentional straw man and/or misundertsanding on your part.
You do realize falsely representing a group is mud-slinging, correct?
Ephesians 2 is sufficient enough to refute you and your denial of God regenerating those dead in sin to spiritual life. This is what "made alive" (Ephesians 2:5) means, and any honest person can see in the context of this that it took place while we were dead in sins. In fact, all of it took place while we were dead in sins. Brought to life, then saved.
God did that.
Note the order:
1. Made us alive together with Christ.
2. Saved us.
3. Raised us up with Him.
4. Seated us in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
I'm not certain why people who misbelieve like you take such an issue with these truths, and spend such an exorbitant amount of time to grant to your glory what God did, who alone should get all the glory.
But, nevertheless and remarkably that is what you do. I don't believe you can even see it for what it is.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
They can't attain righteousness (Justification) even partly by their own efforts.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Yes, he is in grave error in conflating Romans 8:6 and Romans 7:14. That is called "wrongly handling the word of truth..." 2 Timothy 2:15.
I never said you believed that.I tkae it tgen, you believe in total depravity?
As i couldn't care less what you think about Calvinists ... your point?
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How do you harmonize your Calvinist presupposition that Rom 8:6 only refers to "unregenerates" when Paul explicitly includes himself in there by saying "I am carnal" in Rom 7:14?
You can't just pontificate your Calvinist position. You need to prove that the Bible supports it.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Free Will is as free as the Free Range chicken was...
I believe exactly what the Bible says about our depravity.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Why do you even care?
All you want is for us to give an answer, so you can tell us how wrong we are, and insult us further. What would be the point of us wasting our time just to subject ourselves to that? You can't even be respectful and charitable enough to say, "Okay, that's interesting, but I disagree".
Look at you, begging and pleading for someone to argue with, just so you can tell them how wrong (you think) they are, and insult them.
"Please! Please argue with me! Why won't you argue with me?!
I need you to respond so I can tell you how wrong you are, and
then insult you! Waaaahh!!! Someone PLEASE argue with me!
I need someone to argue with me, because I need to proclaim
myself right, and inflate my own ego! Waaaah! Please won't
anyone argue with me?"
Pathetic.
Nobody cares about your opinion.
We can and do proclaim it to anyone who comes to the table in good faith.
You don't.
No we don't.
Why would we "need" to?
You certainly have no desire that it be proven.
God has already proven it to us.
But you would deny that 2 + 2 = 4 if a Calvinist asserted it.
Jesus has 2 wills that were perfectly and freely aligned together. What are you trying to say with your statement?
I've been through this with you.
What is that?
Theo1689
Well-known member
Are you claiming that you are just like Jesus?
Are you claiming Jesus is "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13)?
Are you claiming that Jesus is a "slave to sin" (John 8:34, Rom. 6:16-18)?
Is that really how you argue?
Jesus is God, so that means we are God too!
Really?!
This a forum where everyone can participate. If you can't handle the debates going on then don't participate.
I see that you just can't get enough of this debate. When you said "Have a nice day!", I didn't reply back in case you might think I'm "goading" you and now you're back again by your own volition.
It's not up to me to make them care or not.
That's what I'm seeing. Calvinists have no need to prove that the Bible supports their views.
That is your personal subjective reality speaking.
You are conflating your personal subjective reality with objective reality (2+2=4).
The way to objectively prove your personal subjective reality is through the Word of God.
That's why I keep saying that you need to prove that the Bible supports your views.
What would possess you to even think of such things?
That sounds like things you would say to a Mormon. I'm not a Mormon. You're flailing away hoping to catch a flaw somewhere.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Everyone has a choice to participate.
Everyone has a choice to NOT participate.
If someone has CLEARLY demonstrated a non-interest in discussion with you on a topic, to continue to try to GET that discussion is "goading", and it is "anti-Christian.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
It's not an issue of the "debates".
It is an issue of people NOT coming to table in good faith, and other people choosing NOT to have discussions with such "deplorables".
We don't have any necessity to "prove" it to people who (1) don't WANT to see "proof", and (2) will NEVER admit "proof" when it is given.
It has been proven to me.
I will never convince you, since you refuse to accept proof.
Therefore I'm not interested in wasting my time.
It's seriously not a difficult concept to grasp.
And that is YOUR "personal subjective reality" speaking.
Do you see how that works?
Seriously, get over yourself.
And I HAVE "proven that the Bible supports my views."
That's why I hold my views.
Because they have been proven from the Bible.
You are not part of that.
Get over yourself.