YHWH PIERCED = JESUS PIERCED

[Towerwatchman]

You and your supposed "proper scholarship".

You better believe I will keep bringing up John 17:3, because unlike Zechariah 12:10, John 17:3 cannot be translated in a way that can work with your false doctrine. Very clearly in both contexts their are two referents being spoken of, The Father as The Only True God and the Son whom he sent

Jn17:3 now you open a can of worms. If the Father is the one true God that would make Jesus a false God in Jn 1:1. Would have been nice to reconcile your argument, instead of making the Lord look psychotic. Your argument might hold water if Jesus said,"Only you, Father, are the true God." This is not what Jesus said. Note, Jesus said "you, the only true God." The word "only" does not modify "Father," but rather "God." Note when “true God’ occurs it is contrasting God against false gods and this is what Jesus is doing. {2 Chronicles 15:3 ; Jeremiah 10:10 , 11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9 and 1 John 5:20 , 21).

and neither can the context and precedent set in 1 John 1:1-3. "The Eternal Life that was with the Father"

Totally agrees with the Trinity.
John 1:1B = 'and the Word was with God.'

“With” (πρός/pros) does not convey the full meaning, because there is no single English word which will give it better. {πρός /pros}, denotes motion towards, or direction, the Word is oriented toward God; is also often used in the New Testament in the sense of with; and that not merely as being near or beside, but as a living union and communion; implying the active notion of intercourse. Thus:

“Are not his sisters here with us” (πρὸς- ἡμᾶς Matt. 13:56)
“How long shall I be with you” (πρὸς -ὑμᾶς, Mark 9:16).
“To be present with the Lord” (πρὸς -τὸν- Κύριον, 2 Cor. 5:8).
“The eternal life which was with the Father” (πρὸς- τὸν -πατέρα, 1 John 1:2).

Thus John’s statement is that the divine Word not only abode with the Father from all eternity, but is distinguishable from God, and enjoys a personal relationship with Him. Movement or direction or intent or pertaining to a bringing to face to face

coupled with 1 John 5:20 either. In fact he said this instead "we are in him who is true, even in HIs (Him that is True) His - Son" and which again reveals two referents and not just one.

Who is the antecedent of the demonstrative pronoun 'This' is the true God…
The antecedent can be either 'Jesus Christ' or 'Him that is true.'
John writes = Jesus came to give understanding "So that we might know him that is true."
Question: Who is "Him that is true" and who is "Him that we are in?"
Answer: the subordinate or dependent clause "In His Son Jesus Christ."
Seems crystal clear that John is affirming the deity of Jesus Christ.

As I have shown, Zechariah 12:10 is translated as "and they shall look at him who they pierced and mourn for him" and the NT verifies this as the correct translation also being John quoted it that way.
That is why I said your argument on Zechariah 12:10 is a weak one at best but the argument from John 17:3 and 1 John 1:1-3 coupled with the rest of the context of 1 John 5:20 isn't weak but very powerful.

Indeed it pulls the guts right out of any argument you could ever make in support of your false doctrines about the Nature of God and Christ.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Jn17:3 now you open a can of worms. If the Father is the one true God that would make Jesus a false God in Jn 1:1. Would have been nice to reconcile your argument, instead of making the Lord look psychotic. Your argument might hold water if Jesus said,"Only you, Father, are the true God." This is not what Jesus said. Note, Jesus said "you, the only true God." The word "only" does not modify "Father," but rather "God." Note when “true God’ occurs it is contrasting God against false gods and this is what Jesus is doing. {2 Chronicles 15:3 ; Jeremiah 10:10 , 11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9 and 1 John 5:20 , 21).

LOL, only because you falsely believe that John in John 1:1-3 is speaking of another person of God instead of God's mind (Logos) focused on his future human Son Jesus Christ and without his foreknowledge of, he wouldn't have created anything that he did create knowing in advance that sin would corrupt it all.

When God created it all, he was looking ahead in his foreknowledge of Jesus the Logos made flesh hanging on that cross and having died to give purpose, redemption and restoration to that which he would create.

Totally agrees with the Trinity.
John 1:1B = 'and the Word was with God.'

No it doesn't, for in 1 John 1:1-3 John is not predominately referring to "the beginning" as before the creation but rather the beginning here refers more to when Jesus was revealed to his disciples at the beginning of his ministry.

That which was from the beginning and which they have been preaching all along.

Furthermore, very clearly 1 John 1:1-3 "the Eternal life that was with the Father" sets the precedent and provides the explanation for 1 John 5:20 "this is the true God (The Father) and Eternal life (The Son).

“With” (πρός/pros) does not convey the full meaning, because there is no single English word which will give it better. {πρός /pros}, denotes motion towards, or direction, the Word is oriented toward God; is also often used in the New Testament in the sense of with; and that not merely as being near or beside, but as a living union and communion; implying the active notion of intercourse. Thus:

This just shows your spiritual ignorance of what John is truly saying in John 1:1-3 and even Tertullian understood what the word "pros" was pointing to, for God was thinking towards himself about his future human Son and his death on the cross right from the very beginning of creation.


Here's Tertullian's very interesting explanation of what logos is:

Observe, then, that when you are silently conversing with yourself, this very process is carried on within you by your reason, which meets you with a word at every movement of your thought … Whatever you think, there is a word … You must speak it in your mind …
Thus, in a certain sense, the word is a second person within you, through which in thinking you utter speech … The word is itself a different thing from yourself. Now how much more fully is all this transacted in God, whose image and likeness you are? (Against Praxeas 5)
Logos is that voice you hear inside yourself when you are thinking. At least, that's a rough estimation of what logos means. Tertullian goes out of his way to describe it as "a second person within you" because he's bringing up the Logos of God as a second Person of the Trinity.

God, according to the early churches, has always had logos inside of him.

If you will click on the bold in blue ( Praxeas 5) you will see all that Tertullian said on this and which also makes him totally responsible and guilty before God for his error in believing the Logos was another person of God's Divine nature like he did, for he was being led by his own faulty human intellect instead of the Spirit of God and just like you are also.

Sorry but the word "pros" was referring to God reciprocating with his own mind and thoughts = The Logos and about Jesus in God's foreknowledge of his future coming and dying on the cross.

Notice Tertullian's faulty reasoning when he said "thus in a certain sense, the word is a second person within you, through which in thinking you utter speech ... The word is itserlf a different things from yourself" and which is total nonsense completely.

“Are not his sisters here with us” (πρὸς- ἡμᾶς Matt. 13:56)
“How long shall I be with you” (πρὸς -ὑμᾶς, Mark 9:16).
“To be present with the Lord” (πρὸς -τὸν- Κύριον, 2 Cor. 5:8).
“The eternal life which was with the Father” (πρὸς- τὸν -πατέρα, 1 John 1:2).

Sorry but the word "pros" used here is quite different than how it is used in the deeper spiritual meaning of John 1:1-3.

Thus John’s statement is that the divine Word not only abode with the Father from all eternity, but is distinguishable from God, and enjoys a personal relationship with Him. Movement or direction or intent or pertaining to a bringing to face to face

Nope, but rather God was reciprocating with his his thoughts of his plan and foreknowledge of the coming of his Son and which enabled him in his righteousness to go ahead and create life on this planet while knowing in advance that sin would enter in and cause death and corruption.

Who is the antecedent of the demonstrative pronoun 'This' is the true God…
The antecedent can be either 'Jesus Christ' or 'Him that is true.'
John writes = Jesus came to give understanding "So that we might know him that is true."
Question: Who is "Him that is true" and who is "Him that we are in?"
Answer: the subordinate or dependent clause "In His Son Jesus Christ."
Seems crystal clear that John is affirming the deity of Jesus Christ.

Him who is True and this cannot be Jesus because John very clearly calls Jesus "His Son" in the verse, read it again and learn the truth, for you are running out of time to get your heart right about it.

All that John is saying in this, is that we are only in him who is true (The Father) by being in "His Son" Jesus Christ and whom John refers to as "The Eternal life that was with the Father" in the opening precedent and context for the whole letter in 1 John 1:1-3.

It should be obvious why John calls Jesus "the Eternal life" being it is only through his death on the cross that God can give Eternal life to the believer through Jesus and also because God gave that Eternal life to dwell within the Son but for him and us and as per Jesus' own words in John 5:26 and John 6:57.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

You are the one who needs to learn this and not me, but you will very soon get a clear picture on that from God himself at the end of this age, because you are believing falsely about God and Jesus and many other things of the Bible also.

 

[Towerwatchman]

LOL, only because you falsely believe that John in John 1:1-3 is speaking of another person of God instead of God's mind (Logos) focused on his future human Son Jesus Christ and without his foreknowledge of, he wouldn't have created anything that he did create knowing in advance that sin would corrupt it all.

Let's put this to the test.

1, In the beginning, was God's mind, and God's mind was with God, and God's mind was God. 2 God's mind was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through God's mind, and without God's mind nothing was made that was made. 4 In God's mind was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And God's mind shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend God's mind. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of God's mind, that all through God's mind might believe. 8 He was not God's mind, but was sent to bear witness of that God's mind. 9 That[b] was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10 God's mind was in the world, and the world was made through God's mind, and the world did not know God's mind. 11 God's mind came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive God's mind. 12 But as many as received God's mind, to them God's mind gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in God's mind: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And God's mind became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld God's mind, the glory as of the only begotten mind of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Your god seems to have a multiple personality problem. Let's ask the question= John identifies the Logos as Jesus and you state that Logos is God's mind; is John or, are you correct, or are you both correct?

that he did create knowing in advance that sin would corrupt it all. When God created it all, he was looking ahead in his foreknowledge of Jesus the Logos made flesh hanging on that cross and having died to give purpose, redemption and restoration to that which he would create.

How does this reconcile with free will? If we are following a script that has already been written and can not be changed, how are we responsible for sin, if it was predestined that we will sin?

No it doesn't, for in 1 John 1:1-3 John is not predominately referring to "the beginning" as before the creation but rather the beginning here refers more to when Jesus was revealed to his disciples at the beginning of his ministry

That which was from the beginning and which they have been preaching all along.

And? Does it state 'not before the beginning'? As it does not read 'before the beginning' it does not read 'not before the beginning.' So you can not read into the text what it does not say. It only states 'from the beginning'. Now we can look to other verses to answer the question.
John 1:1

In the beginning, was (ἐν ἀρχ͂ῃ ἦν)[en- ar•khay eimi].

If we are able to draw an imaginary line, on a razor's edge, where on one side there exists only God and the eternal, and on the other exists the created and the temporal, this razor's edge is what John is opening to. John does not open referring to the beginning of Genesis but prior to it, in fact prior to time itself. Note this imaginary line relates to the eternal and the temporal, and not to the Genesis account of creation because creation is not mentioned until vs. 3. Notice where John places the Logos in reference to the beginning; if the Logos is a created being then the Logos would be included in the ‘beginning’ or after. Using [ἦν eimi] “was”, which denotes absolute existence instead of [ἐγένετο, egeneto] “came into being”, or “began to be”, which is used in vs. 3, John is placing the Logos prior to the beginning. John is saying that the Logos absolutely existed prior to the beginning, and the only One who existed prior to the beginning is God in the eternal. Therefore the only logical conclusion for John 1:1 is “the Word was God” not “was a god”.

Furthermore, very clearly 1 John 1:1-3 "the Eternal life that was with the Father" sets the precedent and provides the explanation for 1 John 5:20 "this is the true God (The Father) and Eternal life (The Son).

1 John 5:20 cannot be taken literally but has to be explained away by using your interpretation of another verse. Weak hermeneutics.

Who is the antecedent of the demonstrative pronoun 'This' is the true God…
The antecedent can be either 'Jesus Christ' or 'Him that is true.'
John writes = Jesus came to give understanding "So that we might know him that is true."
Question: Who is "Him that is true" and who is "Him that we are in?"
Answer: the subordinate or dependent clause "In His Son Jesus Christ."
Seems crystal clear that John is affirming the deity of Jesus Christ.

BTW Grammar trumps interpretation. One cannot interpret without following simple grammatical rules.

This just shows your spiritual ignorance of what John is truly saying in John 1:1-3 and even Tertullian understood what the word "pros" was pointing to, for God was thinking towards himself about his future human Son and his death on the cross right from the very beginning of creation.

Here's Tertullian's very interesting explanation of what logos is:

Why associate me with Tertullian? I don't follow him or read his writings. Should I associate you with Joseph Smith or Russell Tate and quote them based on a trivial similarities, as you do with me?

Sorry but the word "pros" was referring to God reciprocating with his own mind and thoughts = The Logos and about Jesus in God's foreknowledge of his future coming and dying on the cross. Sorry but the word "pros" used here is quite different than how it is used in the deeper spiritual meaning of John 1:1-3

Really? Let's ask the experts.

πρός, (a) c. gen., on the side of, in the interests of, for (literary). Ac. 27:34; (b) c. dat., close to, close by, near, at; (c) c. acc. (of persons, places, things), (1) to, with verbs of coming, sending, bringing, saying ===== [Souter, A. (1917). In A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New Testament (p. 217). Clarendon Press.]

πρός, a preposition denoting the position or motion of the Trajector toward the exterior of a Landmark===== [Aubrey, R., Michael Aubrey. (2020). In Greek Prepositions in the New Testament: A Cognitive-Functional Description. Lexham Press.]


4314 πρός [pros /pros/] prep. A strengthened form of 4253; TDNT 6:720; TDNTA 942; GK 4639; 726 occurrences; AV translates as “unto” 340 times, “to” 203 times, “with” 43 times, “for” 25 times, “against” 24 times, “among” 20 times, “at” 11 times, not translated six times, translated miscellaneously 53 times, and “vr to” once. 1 to the advantage of. 2 at, near, by. 3 to, towards, with, with regard to.===[Strong, J. (1995). In Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. Woodside Bible Fellowship.]

πρός pros; a prim. prep.; advantageous for, at (denotes local proximity), toward (denotes motion toward a place):—about(1), accord(1), according(1), across(1), against(21), among(5), around(2), because(2), before(9), beside(1), end(1), near(4), order(1), pertaining(4), promote(1), regard(1), so(5), terms(1), together*(1), toward(9), whispered*(1).===[Thomas, R. L. (1998). In New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : updated edition. Foundation Publications, Inc.]

Seems you are writing your own dictionary. Notice the above acceptable resources disagree with you.

Nope, but rather God was reciprocating with his his thoughts of his plan and foreknowledge of the coming of his Son and which enabled him in his righteousness to go ahead and create life on this planet while knowing in advance that sin would enter in and cause death and corruption.

Curious. On what do you base this? I know that everything you believe is relative to something else, do you have anything absolute and literal? Chapter and verse.

 

[Towerwatchman]

Him who is True and this cannot be Jesus because John very clearly calls Jesus "His Son" in the verse, read it again and learn the truth, for you are running out of time to get your heart right about it.

All that John is saying in this, is that we are only in him who is true (The Father) by being in "His Son" Jesus Christ and whom John refers to as "The Eternal life that was with the Father" in the opening precedent and context for the whole letter in 1 John 1:1-3.

It should be obvious why John calls Jesus "the Eternal life" being it is only through his death on the cross that God can give Eternal life to the believer through Jesus and also because God gave that Eternal life to dwell within the Son but for him and us and as per Jesus' own words in John 5:26 and John 6:57.

Notice, there is nothing relative in your explanations as you relatively explain away one verse after another. Notice how you use the established meaning of the words and established grammatical rules of your choosing to communicate your relative and subjective interpretation. You play both sides of the fence. When convenient grammatical rules and established meaning of words do not apply and when convenient they do. Pure duplicity and hypocrisy.


Again.

Who is the antecedent of the demonstrative pronoun 'This' is the true God…
The antecedent can be either 'Jesus Christ' or 'Him that is true.'
John writes = Jesus came to give understanding "So that we might know him that is true."
Question: Who is "Him that is true" and who is "Him that we are in?"
Answer: the subordinate or dependent clause "In His Son Jesus Christ."
Seems crystal clear that John is affirming the deity of Jesus Christ.

Using grammatical rules taught in any elementary school in the US.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Notice, there is nothing relative in your explanations as you relatively explain away one verse after another. Notice how you use the established meaning of the words and established grammatical rules of your choosing to communicate your relative and subjective interpretation. You play both sides of the fence. When convenient grammatical rules and established meaning of words do not apply and when convenient they do. Pure duplicity and hypocrisy.


Again.

Who is the antecedent of the demonstrative pronoun 'This' is the true God…
The antecedent can be either 'Jesus Christ' or 'Him that is true.'
John writes = Jesus came to give understanding "So that we might know him that is true."
Question: Who is "Him that is true" and who is "Him that we are in?"
Answer: the subordinate or dependent clause "In His Son Jesus Christ."
Seems crystal clear that John is affirming the deity of Jesus Christ.

Using grammatical rules taught in any elementary school in the US.

You trins and your big shot puffed up human education processes, this is the very reason why truth is being hidden from you and only revealed to those who become like little children who in humility realize that in order to know the truth they must seek and ask and knock on heaven's doors for God's answers to what he himself said in his word.

Very clearly in the very first chapter and the first three verses, John reveals the two referents and sets the precedent and context for whom he later ends his letter speaking of in 1 John 5:20 and they are The Father who is "Him who is True" and "His Son" Jesus Christ who came to reveal the Father and who John calls "The Eternal life that was with the Father".

Matthew 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned (guys like you with all of that useless worldly education that you pride yourself in) , and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Notice, things that are revealed are not found out by human education processes like the wise and learned get with they believe in but rather by Divine revelation and just like Jesus told us he would build his true church in Matthew 16.

Your bold red above is the proof of your ignorance and depravity.

For as I said and will again, Jesus came to reveal the Father and it is the Father who John is calling "Him who is True" and not the Son who came to reveal him and the Son cannot possibly be him who is true because John calls Jesus "His Son" making a clear distinction between "Him who is True" and "His Son" who came to reveal him and through whom we are in the Father also.

Then you have the obvious problem of your view contradicting Jesus' words in John 17:3 and there is no way around this either, for he very clearly in two ways reveals that he is not the true God but that only the Father does, for he said himself that he was also sent by the true God.


John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (The Father from verse 1 of the prayer) and Jesus the Christ who you sent".

Notice the similarities of this passage and that of 1 John 1:1-3 and 1 John 5:20.

In both passages it is the Father as The Only True God first and foremost that Jesus wants to reveal to us and then himself as "HIs Son" who he sent and through whom we are in the Father and through whom also we receive eternal life.

Sorry but as clear as the noon day Sun there are two referents in all of these passages and not just one and they are first "Him who is True or The Only True God and who is identified as The Father and then HIs Son whom he has sent and through whom we are in the Father and receive eternal life.


John 5:26 "For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has given unto the Son to have life in himself also".

John 6:57 "For just as The Living Father has sent me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats of me shall live because of me".


Like I said and will again, your Avatar is fitting for you, a figure in black representing darkness and holding up a dim light and just like Paul in 2 Corinthians 11 reveals it to be also.

You better wake up and divorce yourself from your the human intellect and human education processes that you are so obviously putting your trust in, for in regards to the things of the Spirit, they are foolishness with God

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Let's put this to the test.

1, In the beginning, was God's mind, and God's mind was with God, and God's mind was God. 2 God's mind was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through God's mind, and without God's mind nothing was made that was made. 4 In God's mind was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And God's mind shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend God's mind. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of God's mind, that all through God's mind might believe. 8 He was not God's mind, but was sent to bear witness of that God's mind. 9 That[b] was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10 God's mind was in the world, and the world was made through God's mind, and the world did not know God's mind. 11 God's mind came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive God's mind. 12 But as many as received God's mind, to them God's mind gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in God's mind: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And God's mind became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld God's mind, the glory as of the only begotten mind of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Your god seems to have a multiple personality problem. Let's ask the question= John identifies the Logos as Jesus and you state that Logos is God's mind; is John or, are you correct, or are you both correct?


How does this reconcile with free will? If we are following a script that has already been written and can not be changed, how are we responsible for sin, if it was predestined that we will sin?




And? Does it state 'not before the beginning'? As it does not read 'before the beginning' it does not read 'not before the beginning.' So you can not read into the text what it does not say. It only states 'from the beginning'. Now we can look to other verses to answer the question.
John 1:1

In the beginning, was (ἐν ἀρχ͂ῃ ἦν)[en- ar•khay eimi].

If we are able to draw an imaginary line, on a razor's edge, where on one side there exists only God and the eternal, and on the other exists the created and the temporal, this razor's edge is what John is opening to. John does not open referring to the beginning of Genesis but prior to it, in fact prior to time itself. Note this imaginary line relates to the eternal and the temporal, and not to the Genesis account of creation because creation is not mentioned until vs. 3. Notice where John places the Logos in reference to the beginning; if the Logos is a created being then the Logos would be included in the ‘beginning’ or after. Using [ἦν eimi] “was”, which denotes absolute existence instead of [ἐγένετο, egeneto] “came into being”, or “began to be”, which is used in vs. 3, John is placing the Logos prior to the beginning. John is saying that the Logos absolutely existed prior to the beginning, and the only One who existed prior to the beginning is God in the eternal. Therefore the only logical conclusion for John 1:1 is “the Word was God” not “was a god”.

1 John 5:20 cannot be taken literally but has to be explained away by using your interpretation of another verse. Weak hermeneutics.

Who is the antecedent of the demonstrative pronoun 'This' is the true God…
The antecedent can be either 'Jesus Christ' or 'Him that is true.'
John writes = Jesus came to give understanding "So that we might know him that is true."
Question: Who is "Him that is true" and who is "Him that we are in?"
Answer: the subordinate or dependent clause "In His Son Jesus Christ."
Seems crystal clear that John is affirming the deity of Jesus Christ.

BTW Grammar trumps interpretation. One cannot interpret without following simple grammatical rules.


Why associate me with Tertullian? I don't follow him or read his writings. Should I associate you with Joseph Smith or Russell Tate and quote them based on a trivial similarities, as you do with me?

Really? Let's ask the experts.

πρός, (a) c. gen., on the side of, in the interests of, for (literary). Ac. 27:34; (b) c. dat., close to, close by, near, at; (c) c. acc. (of persons, places, things), (1) to, with verbs of coming, sending, bringing, saying ===== [Souter, A. (1917). In A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New Testament (p. 217). Clarendon Press.]

πρός, a preposition denoting the position or motion of the Trajector toward the exterior of a Landmark===== [Aubrey, R., Michael Aubrey. (2020). In Greek Prepositions in the New Testament: A Cognitive-Functional Description. Lexham Press.]


4314 πρός [pros /pros/] prep. A strengthened form of 4253; TDNT 6:720; TDNTA 942; GK 4639; 726 occurrences; AV translates as “unto” 340 times, “to” 203 times, “with” 43 times, “for” 25 times, “against” 24 times, “among” 20 times, “at” 11 times, not translated six times, translated miscellaneously 53 times, and “vr to” once. 1 to the advantage of. 2 at, near, by. 3 to, towards, with, with regard to.===[Strong, J. (1995). In Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. Woodside Bible Fellowship.]

πρός pros; a prim. prep.; advantageous for, at (denotes local proximity), toward (denotes motion toward a place):—about(1), accord(1), according(1), across(1), against(21), among(5), around(2), because(2), before(9), beside(1), end(1), near(4), order(1), pertaining(4), promote(1), regard(1), so(5), terms(1), together*(1), toward(9), whispered*(1).===[Thomas, R. L. (1998). In New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : updated edition. Foundation Publications, Inc.]

Seems you are writing your own dictionary. Notice the above acceptable resources disagree with you.

Curious. On what do you base this? I know that everything you believe is relative to something else, do you have anything absolute and literal? Chapter and verse.

LOL and by whose rule and authority are these who you are speaking of called experts dude?

By the way, the word Logos defined very clearly encompasses the thoughts of God and even Tertullian saw this truth from God about it and which also left him with no excuse for twisting it to mean that John was speaking of two persons and even going so far as to say that in a certain sense we have two persons within us also.

So God gave him some truth and then he took off with his own thinking about it and just like you and all trins do also and all because you don't want to admit that in order to know the truth you must seek God diligently and wait on him for it instead of running off with your own thinking on it like Tertullian did and like you are all doing likewise.

Sorry but here is what Jesus said once again.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

 

[Towerwatchman]

You trins and your big shot puffed up human education processes, this is the very reason why truth is being hidden from you and only revealed to those who become like little children who in humility realize that in order to know the truth they must seek and ask and knock on heaven's doors for God's answers to what he himself said in his word.

Very clearly in the very first chapter and the first three verses, John reveals the two referents and sets the precedent and context for whom he later ends his letter speaking of in 1 John 5:20 and they are The Father who is "Him who is True" and "His Son" Jesus Christ who came to reveal the Father and who John calls "The Eternal life that was with the Father".

Matthew 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned (guys like you with all of that useless worldly education that you pride yourself in) , and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Notice, things that are revealed are not found out by human education processes like the wise and learned get with they believe in but rather by Divine revelation and just like Jesus told us he would build his true church in Matthew 16.

Your bold red above is the proof of your ignorance and depravity.

For as I said and will again, Jesus came to reveal the Father and it is the Father who John is calling "Him who is True" and not the Son who came to reveal him and the Son cannot possibly be him who is true because John calls Jesus "His Son" making a clear distinction between "Him who is True" and "His Son" who came to reveal him and through whom we are in the Father also.

Then you have the obvious problem of your view contradicting Jesus' words in John 17:3 and there is no way around this either, for he very clearly in two ways reveals that he is not the true God but that only the Father does, for he said himself that he was also sent by the true God.


John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (The Father from verse 1 of the prayer) and Jesus the Christ who you sent".

Notice the similarities of this passage and that of 1 John 1:1-3 and 1 John 5:20.

In both passages it is the Father as The Only True God first and foremost that Jesus wants to reveal to us and then himself as "HIs Son" who he sent and through whom we are in the Father and through whom also we receive eternal life.

Sorry but as clear as the noon day Sun there are two referents in all of these passages and not just one and they are first "Him who is True or The Only True God and who is identified as The Father and then HIs Son whom he has sent and through whom we are in the Father and receive eternal life.


John 5:26 "For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has given unto the Son to have life in himself also".

John 6:57 "For just as The Living Father has sent me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats of me shall live because of me".


Like I said and will again, your Avatar is fitting for you, a figure in black representing darkness and holding up a dim light and just like Paul in 2 Corinthians 11 reveals it to be also.

You better wake up and divorce yourself from your the human intellect and human education processes that you are so obviously putting your trust in, for in regards to the things of the Spirit, they are foolishness with God

you seem to suffer from
Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

you seem to suffer from
Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.

LOL, for the only true knowledge regarding the Things of the Spirit are what is revealed from God and it cannot be attained any other way either but it is the usual for the deceived trin to accuse his opposition with what he himself is truly deceived and depraved by.

You will soon enough find out just how worthless all of your human taught Bible education is at the end of this age when you are and your cult is exposed in front of every human being who ever lived also.

 

[Towerwatchman]

LOL, for the only true knowledge regarding the Things of the Spirit are what is revealed from God and it cannot be attained any other way either but it is the usual for the deceived trin to accuse his opposition with what he himself is truly deceived and depraved by.

You will soon enough find out just how worthless all of your human taught Bible education is at the end of this age when you are and your cult is exposed in front of every human being who ever lived also.

Following your logic to a reasonable conclusion you are stating that the Bible is worthless.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Following your logic to a reasonable conclusion you are stating that the Bible is worthless.

Nope but rather I am pointing to the fact that the written text is only the written text to verify what must be revealed by the Spirit also, and that is why the Bible speaks of two witnesses of God's truth and not just "sola scriptura" like trins among others including many Unitarians falsely believe about it.

The written text cannot be rightly interpreted except by the Spirit and neither can the Spirit be proven except by the written text either, for they must work together in perfect unity in order for one to be able to know the truth of God.

You ought to know this from what Paul very clearly told the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3 and especially what Paul states in 1 Corinthians 2:13-16.

For it is impossible for you to know the things of the Spirit without them being revealed by the Spirit and no amount of human exegesis or Hermeneutics with the written text will replace the Spirit either.

That is why when I approach the Bible, I am constantly diligently seeking and asking and waiting upon God for revelation like a little child who knows nothing except his Father reveals it to him and it works to because what I showed you from 1 John 1:1-3 and 1 John 5:20 is proof of it.

For if you are going to be honest about it, you trins passed right over 1 John 1:1-3 and have therefore totally disregarded the fact that John specifically called Jesus by the title of "The Eternal Life that was with the Father" and which is proof that John is speaking of the same two referents in 1 John 5:20 when he says "This is the True God and Eternal Life, for it is the very context.

You will always miss things like this, because you are going about learning the wrong way and not the way that Jesus and his disciples taught in the scriptures, for you are approaching the scripture much the same as the Apostate Jews did also and this is why Jesus said what he did in Matthew 11:25-26.

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Oh how history does have a way of repeating itself, for you trins are following in the same footsteps of the apostates of Jesus' day with all of your head swelling puffed up human Bible education and which is totally worthless also.

By the way, if you think that the Bible was meant to be understood by just anyone who would pick it up and read it, you are greatly deceived, for it is only meant to be understood by those who come to God through Christ as little Children who do not pretend to have the ability to figure it out without the Spirit.

 

[Towerwatchman]

Nope but rather I am pointing to the fact that the written text is only the written text to verify what must be revealed by the Spirit also, and that is why the Bible speaks of two witnesses of God's truth and not just "sola scriptura" like trins among others including many Unitarians falsely believe about it.

The written text cannot be rightly interpreted except by the Spirit and neither can the Spirit be proven except by the written text either, for they must work together in perfect unity in order for one to be able to know the truth of God.

You ought to know this from what Paul very clearly told the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3 and especially what Paul states in 1 Corinthians 2:13-16.

For it is impossible for you to know the things of the Spirit without them being revealed by the Spirit and no amount of human exegesis or Hermeneutics with the written text will replace the Spirit either.

That is why when I approach the Bible, I am constantly diligently seeking and asking and waiting upon God for revelation like a little child who knows nothing except his Father reveals it to him and it works to because what I showed you from 1 John 1:1-3 and 1 John 5:20 is proof of it.

For if you are going to be honest about it, you trins passed right over 1 John 1:1-3 and have therefore totally disregarded the fact that John specifically called Jesus by the title of "The Eternal Life that was with the Father" and which is proof that John is speaking of the same two referents in 1 John 5:20 when he says "This is the True God and Eternal Life, for it is the very context.

You will always miss things like this, because you are going about learning the wrong way and not the way that Jesus and his disciples taught in the scriptures, for you are approaching the scripture much the same as the Apostate Jews did also and this is why Jesus said what he did in Matthew 11:25-26.

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

This is a typical cultist move, claiming special revelation in addition to Scripture, such as Mormons, and JW's . Sorry, you don't get to write your own religion and then claim it came to you by special revelation.

Oh how history does have a way of repeating itself, for you trins are following in the same footsteps of the apostates of Jesus' day with all of your head swelling puffed up human Bible education and which is totally worthless also.

And what did Jesus do with His Apostles? 3+ years the Apostles were taught by Jesus. Being taught by God. That equates to a Doctrine of Theology. Theology = the study of God. The very subject matter is teaching them.

Why did Jesus have to spend three + years teaching? He could have just sent special revelations.

By the way, if you think that the Bible was meant to be understood by just anyone who would pick it up and read it, you are greatly deceived, for it is only meant to be understood by those who come to God through Christ as little Children who do not pretend to have the ability to figure it out without the Spirit.

What flawed logic.
Salvation is accepting Jesus Christ as Savior. One can only come to this conclusion by knowing who Jesus is. One can only come to know who Jesus is by reading Scripture. According to you, one cannot understand Scripture without the Spirit guiding. But the Spirit only comes upon those who believe.

Your god seems to be a very unfair person. Why? According to your scenario, no one comes to salvation except who the spirit chooses to enlighten. If anyone is condemned to hell it is because your god was not gracious enough to allow that person to have the opportunity of knowing and accepting Jesus as Savior.

According to you John 3:16 should read. "For god so loved a few that ..."

My God inspired the writers of Scripture to communicate, in plain text, man's only means of salvation in a manner that can be understood by anyone with simple cognitive ability, to be able to come to the realization that they need Jesus.

Notice it reads. "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Not "that whoever has had a special revelation" should not perish but have everlasting life.


Claiming special revelation is nothing new. Cults throughout history have done the same. Dishonest men such as Russell Tate, Joseph Smith, and Sung Young Moon have claimed the same.

You are in good company.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

This is a typical cultist move, claiming special revelation in addition to Scripture, such as Mormons, and JW's . Sorry, you don't get to write your own religion and then claim it came to you by special revelation.

Nope, it isn't a revelation in addition to the scriptures but rather a revelation of the scriptures and Paul very clearly tells us in 1 Corinthians chapter 1-3 that unless we are taught by the Spirit, we are not going to know the truth period and Jesus also said the same when in Matthew 16 he told his disciples that this was how he would build his true church.

And what did Jesus do with His Apostles? 3+ years the Apostles were taught by Jesus. Being taught by God. That equates to a Doctrine of Theology. Theology = the study of God. The very subject matter is teaching them.

LOL, Jesus taught them and not some hot shot college professor or supposed scholar and Jesus also left us the Holy Spirit to speak God's words to us on his behalf.

While it is true that God gave the church teachers, it is also true that he did this mostly for that time and until the Bible was finished being written and put together, for now the job of the teacher should be to help teach us how to receive the truth from God himself by the Holy Spirit and the scriptures together.

They should be teaching the practice of seeking and asking and waiting upon God for answers instead of hanging on what some dude says is the truth only because he went to a Bible college.

The Bible is a Spiritual book and not a lifeless text book, for the God who inspired it to be written is a Living God unto whom we can come with honest and sincere hearts and receive the truth from first hand.

By the way, why should any one care how many claim this or that, for the only thing that should matter to us is if we are learning the truth correctly and God will take care of those who say but don't do and expose them openly at the proper time and at the end of the age.

Why did Jesus have to spend three + years teaching? He could have just sent special revelations.

I think that I have already answered this by saying they were taught by Jesus and not by one of the trin churches arrogant know it all no nothing supposed scholars.

What flawed logic.
Salvation is accepting Jesus Christ as Savior. One can only come to this conclusion by knowing who Jesus is. One can only come to know who Jesus is by reading Scripture. According to you, one cannot understand Scripture without the Spirit guiding. But the Spirit only comes upon those who believe.

No but the Logic you are using is what is flawed, because you are using your own instead of that which is provided by God in the Spirit.

Who did Jesus say he was? Read John 17:3 and read John 5:26 and read John 6:57 and where did he ever claim to be Yahweh God dude?

If you came to that conclusion it is because you are misinterpreting the scriptures completely, for Jesus never claimed this at all but only that The Father is The Only True God and he is the Christ whom The Only True God sent period.

The Spirit only comes on those whom God has chosen to know the truth and while the message of salvation or the gospel of salvation through Christ is pretty much open to all, the deeper truths of God past that entry are not but are only given to those who enter into that salvation with a honest and true heart and all the others will remain blinded by the Devil period.

Therefore the message of the gospel is the entry but if one rejects the entry, then he won't gain any knowledge further than the gospel and eventually if he doesn't respond, even the gospel message itself will be obscured to him as if he never heard it to start with and it would be better for him never to have known the way of salvation in the first place.

Read 2 Peter, it is all stated in that chapter.

Your god seems to be a very unfair person. Why? According to your scenario, no one comes to salvation except who the spirit chooses to enlighten. If anyone is condemned to hell it is because your god was not gracious enough to allow that person to have the opportunity of knowing and accepting Jesus as Savior.

So you don't believe in predestination huh? Sorry but it is taught in the Bible but it isn't God's doing for anyone to perish but their own because of their choice to follow Adam in sin and therefore they themselves destine themselves to hell but only God predestines whom he chooses to salvation.

Get real, for many in your own trin churches believe this also, Civic is one of them but his way of believing it is false just like the majority of what he believes is also.

According to you John 3:16 should read. "For god so loved a few that ..."

Nope but God loves all men but it is their choice to become sinners and it wasn't Adams like you and the majority of the church have twisted the scriptures to be saying.

We don't sin because of Adam's sin nature being passed upon us but because all he ended up giving us was the same human nature through which he himself sinned when if he had of obeyed God he would have ended up eating of the Tree of Life and by this he would have given life true Spiritual life to his descendants.

Therefore we are all born without God and with the same weak human nature that Adam sinned with and therefore when temptation comes and there is more of it in our world then there was in Adams, we will choose to sin just like he did and that is how his sin had an effect on us towards sin and not because his sin nature was passed on any of us without our will like your apostate churches falsely teach.

Read Ezekiel 18 the whole chapter and also Jeremiah 31:29-34, for this idea that we sin because Adam's sin is passed on to all of us apart from our own will and one generation to another is total hogwash.

My God inspired the writers of Scripture to communicate, in plain text, man's only means of salvation in a manner that can be understood by anyone with simple cognitive ability, to be able to come to the realization that they need Jesus.

Sorry but that isn't what Jesus or Paul taught and the whole truth about predestination would just go over your head if I tried to explain it to you anyhow, for it isn't given for you to know it anyhow.

But let me give you a clue, God allows the hearts of many to be hardened in order that he might save some but if he tried to save all of us equally, he wouldn't be able to save any of us.

Notice what God had to do with other nations in order to turn Israel around to faith in him, over and over he hardened the hearts of those nations to bring Israel to cry out in repentance for God's help and this is all revealed in Paul's writings in Romans 9, so I would suggest you read it over and over again pray fully and perhaps God will open your eyes to the truth just maybe.

Notice it reads. "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Not "that whoever has had a special revelation" should not perish but have everlasting life.

Correct but only those unto whom it is given to know the truth in there hearts will be one of those whosoever's

You better read Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 4:4-6 then, because unless God enlightens a heart to the truth, they will not know it but remain blinded by the Devil, for it is a spiritual problem which requires a spiritual remedy and not an academic problem that can be solved by academic knowledge like what you falsely believe.

Claiming special revelation is nothing new. Cults throughout history have done the same. Dishonest men such as Russell Tate, Joseph Smith, and Sung Young Moon have claimed the same.

You are in good company.

Not so because many claim it and don't get it but are deceived and I am including many Unitarians also and by the way, I was truly saved while believing the trinity but being truly saved meant that God was not going to allow me to continue in the trinity false doctrine.

For he kept after me for better then thirty years before I finally admitted to the contradictions in your doctrine that he was showing me all through those years and which I didn't want to be truthful about but if you don't belong to him, he will leave you in your delusion of the truth.

But thanks to God and his grace and his salvation in my life, he kept working on me until I finally got honest about it and started seeking him to teach me the truth and which he did faithfully.

 

[Towerwatchman]

Nope, it isn't a revelation in addition to the scriptures but rather a revelation of the scriptures and Paul very clearly tells us in 1 Corinthians chapter 1-3 that unless we are taught by the Spirit, we are not going to know the truth period and Jesus also said the same when in Matthew 16 he told his disciples that this was how he would build his true church.

Be more specific. Are you capable or able to narrow it down to the verses.

LOL, Jesus taught them and not some hot shot college professor or supposed scholar and Jesus also left us the Holy Spirit to speak God's words to us on his behalf.

Being a hot shot college professor does not equate to being wrong. Seems you have a dislike of higher learning.

While it is true that God gave the church teachers, it is also true that he did this mostly for that time and until the Bible was finished being written and put together, for now the job of the teacher should be to help teach us how to receive the truth from God himself by the Holy Spirit and the scriptures together.

Post you support, otherwise your personal opinions. Personal opinions are not universal truths.

They should be teaching the practice of seeking and asking and waiting upon God for answers instead of hanging on what some dude says is the truth only because he went to a Bible college.
The Bible is a Spiritual book and not a lifeless text book, for the God who inspired it to be written is a Living God unto whom we can come with honest and sincere hearts and receive the truth from first hand.

Wrong, the Bible is a text book inspired by God.

By the way, why should any one care how many claim this or that, for the only thing that should matter to us is if we are learning the truth correctly and God will take care of those who say but don't do and expose them openly at the proper time and at the end of the age.

Apply this to you assertions, why should anyone care about your claims? Because you wrote it?

No but the Logic you are using is what is flawed, because you are using your own instead of that which is provided by God in the Spirit.

Now you are omniscient? How do you know it is not the Spirit of God that provided this to me?

Who did Jesus say he was? Read John 17:3 and read John 5:26 and read John 6:57 and where did he ever claim to be Yahweh God dude?

And? Did Jesus say He was not God in any of those verses. But let's see what the Peter, John and Paul have to say about this topic.

Jesus is God.
Explicit verses.
2 Pe 1:1
Titus 2:13
Heb 1:8-9
Jn 20:28

So you don't believe in predestination huh? Sorry but it is taught in the Bible but it isn't God's doing for anyone to perish but their own because of their choice to follow Adam in sin and therefore they themselves destine themselves to hell but only God predestines whom he chooses to salvation.

Does it read. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Whoever believes = free will act.

vs your idea
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever He predestined should not perish but have everlasting life.

We don't sin because of Adam's sin nature being passed upon us but because all he ended up giving us was the same human nature through which he himself sinned when if he had of obeyed God he would have ended up eating of the Tree of Life and by this he would have given life true Spiritual life to his descendants.

Was that Adam's free will choice or was it Gods predestination in action?

Sorry but that isn't what Jesus or Paul taught and the whole truth about predestination would just go over your head if I tried to explain it to you anyhow, for it isn't given for you to know it anyhow.

Come on. Can you share you wisdom with us simple peasants?

But let me give you a clue, God allows the hearts of many to be hardened in order that he might save some but if he tried to save all of us equally, he wouldn't be able to save any of us.

Does that make sense? Why not save all. Seems your idea of salvation pivots on hearts being hardened. BTW what is the ratio? Of harden hearts to saved individuals.

Notice what God had to do with other nations in order to turn Israel around to faith in him, over and over he hardened the hearts of those nations to bring Israel to cry out in repentance for God's help and this is all revealed in Paul's writings in Romans 9, so I would suggest you read it over and over again pray fully and perhaps God will open your eyes to the truth just maybe.

chapter and verse please.

Correct but only those unto whom it is given to know the truth in there hearts will be one of those whosoever's

You better read Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 4:4-6 then, because unless God enlightens a heart to the truth, they will not know it but remain blinded by the Devil, for it is a spiritual problem which requires a spiritual remedy and not an academic problem that can be solved by academic knowledge like what you falsely believe.

That is not what the verse reads.
For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Paul is emphasizing the fact that the glory of God is for us manifested only in the face of Christ. How this relates to 'spiritual' I don't see it. But what do I know, I am following established English grammatical rules and definitions of words.

 

[Anthony]

Why are you so utterly blind to your problem here?



Did you forget to mention the manuscript variants?

Did you forget to mention that John's quote of the verse is different than your version of the verse?

Did you forget to mention the translation problem here concerning et asher?

See, those who want to discredit the Deity of Messiah will search for other manuscripts to tingle their ears. There are hundred other ways to find His Deity if anyone has any spiritual discernment.

One way I tell you. Was YHWH husband to Israel? Didn't He put her away by giving certificate of Divorce?

Does a Father give His Son the same divorced Israel as wife in the NT? Yet Messiah is her Husband in NT. That's serious! No unitarian would even try to discuss because they don't know anything about The Torah regarding marriage, divorce or remarriage. They have no idea between the Torah of sin and death nor Torah of the Spirit of Life in Messiah.

There are more!

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Be more specific. Are you capable or able to narrow it down to the verses.

1 Corinthians 2:13-16​

​

13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. ​

14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,

16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.
Read full chapter

Being a hot shot college professor does not equate to being wrong. Seems you have a dislike of higher learning.

No but what it does amount to is men being taught by men who were never taught by the Holy Spirit and especially since the church for many years now has been in the apostasy that Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

Post you support, otherwise your personal opinions. Personal opinions are not universal truths.

1 John 2:27

1 John 2:27
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

If this isn't sufficient, then suppose you show us the support for your belief that the angel of the Lord in the OT was Jesus.

Where did any inspired writer of the NT ever reveal this and if not, you are teaching a private interpretation according to 2 Peter 1:20-21 and which makes you also a false prophet according to 2 Peter 2:1-2.

So don't be a hypocrite. ​

Wrong, the Bible is a text book inspired by God.

Where is your support that the Bible is a text book also. The Bible is inspired by God and text books aren't inspired by God.

Apply this to you assertions, why should anyone care about your claims? Because you wrote it?

I don't concern myself with what men believe about what I am saying but only about whether what I am saying is the truth of God's word.

The majority is always going to in darkness and my purpose is not to attempt to open anyone's eyes to the truth, for only God can open the spiritual eyes of the blind.

My purpose is only to present a platform of what God has shown me personally concerning the truth so that if God wills, he can use it or some of it to open someone's spiritual eyes with but he has to do it, for no man can do this and I don't care how much he thinks he knows and can communicate either.

Now you are omniscient? How do you know it is not the Spirit of God that provided this to me?

Because I know the truth and no lie is of the truth and you believe many things that are lies and not the truth and your very words reveal that you are a false profit with or without the sheep's clothing.

This is what Jesus meant when he said to those who knew the truth, "you will know them by their fruits" for the fruit of the false prophet are his false words and false teachings.

That is why Jesus' words "you will know them by their fruits" is only for those who know the truth and the rest would know the truth if it was the broad side of a bright red barn starring them in the face, it is just that simple.

And? Did Jesus say He was not God in any of those verses. But let's see what the Peter, John and Paul have to say about this topic.

First off, why would he even have to say he wasn't God dude?

Nevertheless, when Jesus said he received his life from the Father and only lives because of the Father he was indeed by this revealing that he could not possibly be God, for God has life in himself by default being Almighty God and God would never say that another gave him his life but Jesus did.

Your inability to understand this just proves your spiritual blindness and unwillingness to accept what Jesus himself said and the same goes for what he said in John 17:3 which you also attempt to alter in order to make it fit with your false teachings.

Jesus is God.
Explicit verses.
2 Pe 1:1

No, but instead Peter is calling Jesus by the title of "The righteousness of God and our savior", for while you want to remove the words "the righteousness of God" and only view him as saying "our God and Savior" you are in grave error.

Titus 2:13

Here is another, for Paul is not calling Jesus God here but rather "the glory of our Great God and Savior" and who will soon appear in clouds.

Heb 1:8-9

LOL, even many of your own scholars would have to admit that this was first written concerning a human King of Israel and maybe even more than one of them.

Furthermore, the fact that the one who is being called "god" has another called God who is above him and who anoints him to rule proves you are in error with your interpretation on this, for God doesn't need another to anoint him to rule dude.

Also shall I show you that in other places of scripture God called many of his own human spiritual representatives by his same title of "elohim"?

Look at Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 and also Psalm 82:6 that Jesus even quoted to prove to the Jews that his calling God his Father and himself God's Son was in no way a claim that he himself was God or equal unto God being Yahweh himself even called them "god's and by the way Jesus never even called himself by the title of elohim but only Elohim's Son.

Jn 20:28

Jesus was with all of his disciples 3 1/2 years so where do you see any other disciple ever addressing Jesus as being their God dude?

That reveals just how ignorant you are in believing that doubting Thomas was doing this when Jesus appeared to him.

What he was doing however was confessing his renewed faith that Jesus was the Lord that was to come and that God was dwelling within Jesus and raised him from the dead, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have been standing in front of him alive from the dead.

Does it read. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Whoever believes = free will act.

Of course it requires a free will action on the part of the one who is chosen but the only reason why they will be turned to repentance and faith in their will is because of what God does all through their life to bring them there and if you don't know this, it means you are not a true believer period.

vs your idea
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever He predestined should not perish but have everlasting life.

LOL, I already explained this above.

Was that Adam's free will choice or was it Gods predestination in action?

Adam's free will choice, for Adam chose to disobey God and lose what God had planned for him and not God and just like we all have done also but those who are saved from that are predestined by God to be saved from it.

Come on. Can you share you wisdom with us simple peasants?

LOL, you are really ignorant aren't you.

It very clearly reveals that God has to shine his light into the hearts of those who he brings to repentance in order for them to be saved

Paul is emphasizing the fact that the glory of God is for us manifested only in the face of Christ. How this relates to 'spiritual' I don't see it. But what do I know, I am following established English grammatical rules and definitions of words.

Well then you are as blind as a bat for very clearly, not everyone sees Jesus after the Spirit and Paul also says this doesn't he, for how about this passage below?

2 Corinthians 5:16-21

New International Version

​

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Be more specific. Are you capable or able to narrow it down to the verses.

Being a hot shot college professor does not equate to being wrong. Seems you have a dislike of higher learning.

Post you support, otherwise your personal opinions. Personal opinions are not universal truths.

Wrong, the Bible is a text book inspired by God.

Apply this to you assertions, why should anyone care about your claims? Because you wrote it?

Now you are omniscient? How do you know it is not the Spirit of God that provided this to me?

And? Did Jesus say He was not God in any of those verses. But let's see what the Peter, John and Paul have to say about this topic.

Jesus is God.
Explicit verses.
2 Pe 1:1
Titus 2:13
Heb 1:8-9
Jn 20:28


Does it read. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Whoever believes = free will act.

vs your idea
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever He predestined should not perish but have everlasting life.

Was that Adam's free will choice or was it Gods predestination in action?

Come on. Can you share you wisdom with us simple peasants?

Does that make sense? Why not save all. Seems your idea of salvation pivots on hearts being hardened. BTW what is the ratio? Of harden hearts to saved individuals.

chapter and verse please.

That is not what the verse reads.
For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Paul is emphasizing the fact that the glory of God is for us manifested only in the face of Christ. How this relates to 'spiritual' I don't see it. But what do I know, I am following established English grammatical rules and definitions of words.

Now lets look at Roman's 9 where Paul reveals why God cannot save all men but has to choose from the whole lump of corrupted by sin clay, some for His mercy and salvation and others to be left hardened by their own choice to sin.

God has a predicament, for he loves all men and is not desiring that any perish but in order to save some of the clay he must allow most of it to be hardened in sin and perish.

The reason for this, is because the only way that he can turn that portion that he chooses for salvation to repentance and faith, he has to use the portion that he leaves in the hardness of sin to have an effect towards repentance and faith on that portion chosen for mercy and salvation.

Let's see where this is seen in the scriptures and where Paul also says this below.


Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for you. 4 Since you were precious in my sight, you have been honored, and I have loved you: therefore will I give other men and people for your life.

Very clearly in the above we see that God allowed other nations to be hardened in sin that he might turn his favor on Israel and save them.

Now lets see where Paul says this also in Romans 9.

Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:

What all of this proves is that men in sin are so stubborn, that God has to use drastic measures to get them to turn to him in repentance and believe and he has to use men and women hardened in sin in order to have an effect on those he chooses for mercy and get them to repent and believe and Israel is perfect example of this.

Remember also, all men are sinners and by nature rebels against God and therefore they have no rights to question why he must let some perish in order to save others but he must and the scriptures prove this and especially God's dealings with Israel prove it.

Notice also, that God had to allow Israel to be hardened in sin in order that they might offer up Jesus in death so that God can save many more souls as a result.

I would suggest you now read Romans 9 once again and pay close attention to these details from Paul.

 

[Tanachreader]

Now lets look at Roman's 9 where Paul reveals why God cannot save all men but has to choose from the whole lump of corrupted by sin clay, some for His mercy and salvation and others to be left hardened by their own choice to sin.

God has a predicament, for he loves all men and is not desiring that any perish but in order to save some of the clay he must allow most of it to be hardened in sin and perish.

The reason for this, is because the only way that he can turn that portion that he chooses for salvation to repentance and faith, he has to use the portion that he leaves in the hardness of sin to have an effect towards repentance and faith on that portion chosen for mercy and salvation.

Let's see where this is seen in the scriptures and where Paul also says this below.


Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for you. 4 Since you were precious in my sight, you have been honored, and I have loved you: therefore will I give other men and people for your life.

Very clearly in the above we see that God allowed other nations to be hardened in sin that he might turn his favor on Israel and save them.

Now lets see where Paul says this also in Romans 9.

Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:

What all of this proves is that men in sin are so stubborn, that God has to use drastic measures to get them to turn to him in repentance and believe and he has to use men and women hardened in sin in order to have an effect on those he chooses for mercy and get them to repent and believe and Israel is perfect example of this.

Remember also, all men are sinners and by nature rebels against God and therefore they have no rights to question why he must let some perish in order to save others but he must and the scriptures prove this and especially God's dealings with Israel prove it.

Notice also, that God had to allow Israel to be hardened in sin in order that they might offer up Jesus in death so that God can save many more souls as a result.

I would suggest you now read Romans 9 once again and pay close attention to these details from Paul.

Bunch of bs
You say it was God and not themselves.
John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Bunch of bs
You say it was God and not themselves.
John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I haven't a clue what you are talking about but that figures being you are blind to the truth that I posted to begin with and therefore cannot receive it.

All men with the exclusion of none except Jesus have sinned of their own free will and therefore have destined themselves to perish and that is not God's fault.

Now being we are all guilty and have no rights before God at all and neither can we demand that God be equally fair with all of us either, God can choose who he has mercy upon and who he chooses to leave hardened in their sin in order that he might save some of us and this is very clearly seen in the history of Israel and spoken of in Isaiah 43:3 and Paul's words in Romans 9.

So I can't help the fact that you don't have spiritual ears to be able to hear the truth about this.

 

[Tanachreader]

I haven't a clue what you are talking about but that figures being you are blind to the truth that I posted to begin with and therefore cannot receive it.

All men with the exclusion of none except Jesus have sinned of their own free will and therefore have destined themselves to perish and that is not God's fault.

Now being we are all guilty and have no rights before God at all and neither can we demand that God be equally fair with all of us either, God can choose who he has mercy upon and who he chooses to leave hardened in their sin in order that he might save some of us and this is very clearly seen in the history of Israel and spoken of in Isaiah 43:3 and Paul's words in Romans 9.

So I can't help the fact that you don't have spiritual ears to be able to hear the truth about this.

Your right you haven't a clue.
You defend those that hated Jesus.

You wrote “God had to allow Israel to be hardened in sin in order that they might offer up Jesus in death so that God can save many more souls as a result.”


You say it was God and not themselves.
John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Do you make the same excuse for others that murdered over the ages.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Your right you haven't a clue.
You defend those that hated Jesus.

You wrote “God had to allow Israel to be hardened in sin in order that they might offer up Jesus in death so that God can save many more souls as a result.”


You say it was God and not themselves.
John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Do you make the same excuse for others that murdered over the ages.

You obviously pay very little attention to what you read, "I SAID GOD ALLOWED THEM TO BE HARDENED WITH THEIR SIN" AND WHICH MEANS HE LET THEM DO WHAT THEY ALREADY WANTED TO DO WHEN HE COULD HAVE SOFTENED THEIR HEARTS AND PREVENTED THEM FROM DOING IT.

It is no wonder why you are being so easily led astray by the false teachers you have willingly attached yourself to with how ignorant you are of what the Bible teaches.

Acts 2:23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.


Jesus was handed over to them who wanted to kill him because they were apostates and God let them continue in it in order that Jesus might be offered up a perfect human sacrifice for the salvation of many more souls and in accordance to the law of Moses also, for he was offered up by the High Priest.


The fact is, you don't want to listen, and when someone doesn't want to even listen, that is what ends up making them stupid.