How Eternal Life is Maintained

[Icyspark]

From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works, whether obtained or maintained.

Hi MMDAN,

I have no problem with that. Ultimately those who are not redeemed will not have access to the Tree of Life and therefore will not be living forever. Eternal life is only given to the redeemed. There's no such thing as an immortal soul. Thus there will be no such thing as an eternally burning hellfire in which the lost will be tortured throughout eternity.

God bless.

 

[Common Tater]

Hi Common Tater,

It seems to me maybe ur equivocating. Let's try this. What do you believe it means that God "alone is immortal"? Are any of the other sinless beings God created dying? If not, then are they not also immortal? Or is there something inherently different about God's immortality than the eternal life given to His creatures?

Also, you did not address the last two points of my previous post. Do you have any thoughts you'd like to share?

• If you do not believe that Genesis 1-3 is in some form symbolic, why would you not accept that the Tree of Life does what its name implies? Why would you not accept the reason God gave for banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden was so that they would not be able to take "from the tree of life and eat, and live forever"?
• Why is it relevant that the redeemed are given restored access to the Tree of Life?

God bless.

I surely don't think I am equivocating. God alone (and by God, I mean the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has no beginning and cannot have an end. God cannot be killed or destroyed. Now, the Bible does not directly speak as to whether angels have eternal life, but I believe that they do. However, they are not immortal. God created them and He can uncreate them. What is the difference between God's immortality and the eternal live given to His creatures? You've got the answer in your question. God's creatures have eternal life given to them by God. They do not have it except thru Him.

Could you show me where I have not accepted that the Tree of Life does what the name implies?

 

[Formersda]

You are not God. You will never be God. God "ALONE" is immortal. If that is so then how do you intend to live forever?

Hi Icy,

Happy New Year,

You are correct that only God is immortal.
So my question to you is what does eternal life mean?

 

[Icyspark]

I surely don't think I am equivocating. God alone (and by God, I mean the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has no beginning and cannot have an end. God cannot be killed or destroyed. Now, the Bible does not directly speak as to whether angels have eternal life, but I believe that they do. However, they are not immortal. God created them and He can uncreate them. What is the difference between God's immortality and the eternal live given to His creatures? You've got the answer in your question. God's creatures have eternal life given to them by God. They do not have it except thru Him.

Could you show me where I have not accepted that the Tree of Life does what the name implies?

Hi Common Tater,

I do not believe God would ever arbitrarily uncreate any of His creatures. That said, the Bible tells us not to be "afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, BE AFRAID of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." How ppl who believe in an immortal soul reconcile this text with the above words of Jesus is beyond me.

I believe death had no part in God's perfect universe and will not play any part on the new Earth. Death was only introduced as a direct result of Adam and Eve's transgression of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. After God annihilates the wicked, "then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire . . . There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

As for whether you accept "that the Tree of Life does what the name implies," I'd say that your questions gave the impression that you didn't. If indeed you accept that the Tree of Life actually does what the Bible says it does, then great!

 

[Icyspark]

Hi Icy,

Happy New Year,

You are correct that only God is immortal.
So my question to you is what does eternal life mean?

Hi Formersda,

God "alone" has immortality--built-in, if you will. It's innate to who He is. God promises that those who love and obey Him will receive eternal life at the second coming. To use Ellen White's words, we will attain "a life that measures with the life of God." Because we do not have the same innate immortality built-in, the Bible indicates that by eating from the Tree of Life we will "live forever."

No unsaved person will be living--in any form--forever. That's good news! Why would you ever follow a god who endlessly tortures his creatures for the sins of one brief lifetime? The God of the Bible is a loving God. It's a "strange act" for God to punish His creatures, but He promises that He will repay evil-doers with the just punishment for their crimes--and no more.

I pray this helps.

 

[Formersda]

Hi Formersda,

God "alone" has immortality--built-in, if you will. It's innate to who He is. God promises that those who love and obey Him will receive eternal life at the second coming. To use Ellen White's words, we will attain "a life that measures with the life of God." Because we do not have the same innate immortality built-in, the Bible indicates that by eating from the Tree of Life we will "live forever."

No unsaved person will be living--in any form--forever. That's good news! Why would you ever follow a god who endlessly tortures his creatures for the sins of one brief lifetime? The God of the Bible is a loving God. It's a "strange act" for God to punish His creatures, but He promises that He will repay evil-doers with the just punishment for their crimes--and no more.

I pray this helps.

Hi Icy,

You stated earlier that life is from God, so it seems odd that life is now maintained from the tree of life. How do you explain what Jesus said in John 3:17 “so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life? Is that the tree or Jesus? Or John 6:47 “ “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has (present tense) eternal life.”

 

[Carol]

Well, Icy;
what tree brings forth both "Good and Evil Fruit"

Thru law is a knowledge of sin.

eat from and die
what tree brings forth only Good Fruit

"I am the vine..."

eat of its fruit and live

??????????????????????????????

 

[e v e 21]

there is

the law of sin and flesh


the law of the spirit of life

 

[Icyspark]

Hi Icy,

You stated earlier that life is from God, so it seems odd that life is now maintained from the tree of life. How do you explain what Jesus said in John 3:17 “so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life? Is that the tree or Jesus? Or John 6:47 “ “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has (present tense) eternal life.”

Hi Formersda,

Let's consider this from a slightly different angle:

• Life comes from God.
• Our current life is sustained via eating food.

Is the life which God gave each of us somehow marginalized by the fact that that life is sustained by eating food?

Your questions indicate a desire to disengage from the topic and redirect focus from what you apparently cannot address. Either the Bible is contradictory in the different elements being discussed or your understanding is biased in favor of a preconceived idea. One must be willing to set aside personal bias and attempt to harmonize things they may perceive as being antithetical. In this case believing that a person has eternal life now obviously isn't taking into account that God alone is immortal. So you are illustrating an unwillingness to provide an explanation how eternal life for humans--without benefit of an exterior source (i.e. the Tree of Life)--is in anyway substantially different from God's immortality. Either death is a current common occurrence for heavenly beings now, or there is some external way God has provided for heavenly beings to "live forever" without having the inherent, built-in, innate, inborn immortality which God has. Perhaps like say, maybe, oh, I don't know, something like a ... "Tree of Life"? ?

The Bible says that you can know that you are saved, but it also says that believers can become unbelievers. That they can be cut off (kinda like a branch on a ... oh, I don't know ... TREE!). That they can find themselves on the outside, looking in. That they can be unforgiven. So eternal life now is predicated on standing firm ... to the end. At which time the redeemed will be given access to the Tree of Life which will maintain and sustain their lives ... forever.

Questions for you:

1. Is the Tree of Life a literal, real, actual, factual tree (as opposed to a symbolic, allegorical, figurative, emblematic tree)?
2. If you said the Tree of Life is in any way symbolic, on what biblical basis do you come to this conclusion?
3. If the Tree of Life is real and literal, what does its name have to do with its purpose?
4. Why were Adam and Eve banished from the Garden?
5. Why will the Tree of Life be reestablished on the new Earth?
6. If eating from the Tree of Life would've allowed Adam and Eve to "live forever" then why would you suppose that on the new Earth it would retain the same name but be stripped of its life-sustaining capabilities?
7. The Bible says the redeemed will be given the "right to the tree of life." If the Tree of Life serves no life sustaining purpose then why is this promise made?

I pray this helps.

 

[Common Tater]

Hi Common Tater,

I do not believe God would ever arbitrarily uncreate any of His creatures. That said, the Bible tells us not to be "afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, BE AFRAID of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." How ppl who believe in an immortal soul reconcile this text with the above words of Jesus is beyond me.

I believe death had no part in God's perfect universe and will not play any part on the new Earth. Death was only introduced as a direct result of Adam and Eve's transgression of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. After God annihilates the wicked, "then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire . . . There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

As for whether you accept "that the Tree of Life does what the name implies," I'd say that your questions gave the impression that you didn't. If indeed you accept that the Tree of Life actually does what the Bible says it does, then great!

I do not believe that God would just up and uncreate one of His creatures either. What I am saying is that He has the capability to do so, whereas God cannot be undone. His immortality is innate, our eternal life is a gift He bestows on us.

 

[Carol]

there is

the law of sin and flesh

Human nature.

the law of the spirit of life

Spiritual nature.

And there are written codes of law, like the Mosaic law.

 

[e v e 21]

Human nature.



Spiritual nature.

And there are written codes of law, like the Mosaic law.

interesting how what defines life here, ‘human nature’, is sin nature…
what he abhors

luckily He gave the ten commandments to protect the soul from its depravity

 

[Carol]

interesting how what defines life here, ‘human nature’, is sin nature…
what he abhors

luckily He gave the ten commandments to protect the soul from its depravity

Where did you get that idea?

How would words on stone protect the soul?
And what of all the souls who never heard of those commandments?

 

[Formersda]

Hi Formersda,

Let's consider this from a slightly different angle:

• Life comes from God.
• Our current life is sustained via eating food.

Is the life which God gave each of us somehow marginalized by the fact that that life is sustained by eating food?

Your questions indicate a desire to disengage from the topic and redirect focus from what you apparently cannot address. Either the Bible is contradictory in the different elements being discussed or your understanding is biased in favor of a preconceived idea. One must be willing to set aside personal bias and attempt to harmonize things they may perceive as being antithetical. In this case believing that a person has eternal life now obviously isn't taking into account that God alone is immortal. So you are illustrating an unwillingness to provide an explanation how eternal life for humans--without benefit of an exterior source (i.e. the Tree of Life)--is in anyway substantially different from God's immortality. Either death is a current common occurrence for heavenly beings now, or there is some external way God has provided for heavenly beings to "live forever" without having the inherent, built-in, innate, inborn immortality which God has. Perhaps like say, maybe, oh, I don't know, something like a ... "Tree of Life"? ?

The Bible says that you can know that you are saved, but it also says that believers can become unbelievers. That they can be cut off (kinda like a branch on a ... oh, I don't know ... TREE!). That they can find themselves on the outside, looking in. That they can be unforgiven. So eternal life now is predicated on standing firm ... to the end. At which time the redeemed will be given access to the Tree of Life which will maintain and sustain their lives ... forever.

Questions for you:

1. Is the Tree of Life a literal, real, actual, factual tree (as opposed to a symbolic, allegorical, figurative, emblematic tree)?
2. If you said the Tree of Life is in any way symbolic, on what biblical basis do you come to this conclusion?
3. If the Tree of Life is real and literal, what does its name have to do with its purpose?
4. Why were Adam and Eve banished from the Garden?
5. Why will the Tree of Life be reestablished on the new Earth?
6. If eating from the Tree of Life would've allowed Adam and Eve to "live forever" then why would you suppose that on the new Earth it would retain the same name but be stripped of its life-sustaining capabilities?
7. The Bible says the redeemed will be given the "right to the tree of life." If the Tree of Life serves no life sustaining purpose then why is this promise made?

I pray this helps.

That’s an awful lot of questions to my question.
So here it is again, what does eternal life mean which Jesus stated in the above verses?

 

[Icyspark]

What I am saying is that He has the capability to do so, whereas God cannot be undone. His immortality is innate, our eternal life is a gift He bestows on us.

Hi Common Tater,

That position still means that there are others who are immortal, whether that immortality it innate or derived. I believe that qualifies as a contradiction.

 

[Icyspark]

That’s an awful lot of questions to my question.
So here it is again, what does eternal life mean which Jesus stated in the above verses?

The words "eternal life" are self-explanatory. It means "to live forever."

But just as eternal life is self-explanatory so too is the title, "the Tree of Life." That you dance around this issue and refuse to engage directly with the texts indicating what this tree does in relation to its title indicates to me that you fully understand the problem you face. You believe one thing, but the Bible says another. I'd say to stick with the Bible cuz it's inspired and you're not.

Questions for you, round 2:

1. Is the Tree of Life a literal, real, actual, factual tree (as opposed to a symbolic, allegorical, figurative, emblematic tree)?
2. If you said the Tree of Life is in any way symbolic, on what biblical basis do you come to this conclusion?
3. If the Tree of Life is real and literal, what does its name have to do with its purpose?
4. Why were Adam and Eve banished from the Garden?
5. Why will the Tree of Life be reestablished on the new Earth?
6. If eating from the Tree of Life would've allowed Adam and Eve to "live forever" then why would you suppose that on the new Earth it would retain the same name but be stripped of its life-sustaining capabilities?
7. The Bible says the redeemed will be given the "right to the tree of life." If the Tree of Life serves no life sustaining purpose then why is this promise made?

I pray this helps.

 

[e v e 21]

Where did you get that idea?

How would words on stone protect the soul?
And what of all the souls who never heard of those commandments?

His words are what God said
and what He says is true

moses just wrote those 10 down
… representing His words.

 

[e v e 21]

Where did you get that idea?

How would words on stone protect the soul?
And what of all the souls who never heard of those commandments?

When He showed me heaven (for example…)
it was real

later, like now, writing to you about it
my written down words attempt to relay what He showed me

 

[Formersda]

The words "eternal life" are self-explanatory. It means "to live forever."

But just as eternal life is self-explanatory so too is the title, "the Tree of Life." That you dance around this issue and refuse to engage directly with the texts indicating what this tree does in relation to its title indicates to me that you fully understand the problem you face. You believe one thing, but the Bible says another. I'd say to stick with the Bible cuz it's inspired and you're not.

Questions for you, round 2:

1. Is the Tree of Life a literal, real, actual, factual tree (as opposed to a symbolic, allegorical, figurative, emblematic tree)?
2. If you said the Tree of Life is in any way symbolic, on what biblical basis do you come to this conclusion?
3. If the Tree of Life is real and literal, what does its name have to do with its purpose?
4. Why were Adam and Eve banished from the Garden?
5. Why will the Tree of Life be reestablished on the new Earth?
6. If eating from the Tree of Life would've allowed Adam and Eve to "live forever" then why would you suppose that on the new Earth it would retain the same name but be stripped of its life-sustaining capabilities?
7. The Bible says the redeemed will be given the "right to the tree of life." If the Tree of Life serves no life sustaining purpose then why is this promise made?

I pray this helps.

1) From Revelation 22:2 it seems the tree of life is literal.
2)
3) That verse says and the leaves were for the healing of the nations, so from that text the healing of the nations.
4) Genesis 3:22 says that if Adam ate from it he would live forever.
5) Revelation 22:2 says there will be a tree of life in the new heavens and new earth.
6) No one can assertain that the tree of life in Revelation is the same as in Genesis, and that verse states the purpose of the tree of life “”the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations”
7) Good question, but how does the redeemed get that right?

As I have stated before we are granted eternal life through Jesus, eternal life is not immortality as only God is immortal, it we are granted eternal life through Jesus and that is a present tense. It’s not we are granted eternal life sometime in the future its now. I can only go with what Jesus says and if He says I have eternal life now then that’s what I have to believe.

 

[Icyspark]

1) From Revelation 22:2 it seems the tree of life is literal.
2)
3) That verse says and the leaves were for the healing of the nations, so from that text the healing of the nations.
4) Genesis 3:22 says that if Adam ate from it he would live forever.
5) Revelation 22:2 says there will be a tree of life in the new heavens and new earth.
6) No one can assertain that the tree of life in Revelation is the same as in Genesis, and that verse states the purpose of the tree of life “”the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations”
7) Good question, but how does the redeemed get that right?

As I have stated before we are granted eternal life through Jesus, eternal life is not immortality as only God is immortal, it we are granted eternal life through Jesus and that is a present tense. It’s not we are granted eternal life sometime in the future its now. I can only go with what Jesus says and if He says I have eternal life now then that’s what I have to believe.

Hi Formersda,

Thank you for answering my questions and for now I won't belabor the individual points above.

You've acknowledging that "we are granted eternal life through Jesus." By "we" I presume you mean those who trust in Jesus as their personal Savior? If that's the case I wonder if you believe that unbelievers are likewise "granted eternal life through Jesus"? If not, then what do you believe happens to the wicked after Christ returns to set up His kingdom permanently on this Earth?