I understood that.
Growing up in a church, which less than 150 years previously was a dyed-in-the-wool Jesus "freak" community of Jesus followers, who by the time I was a child had become more like the church of Sardis, in Revelation:
A name that was alive, but was in fact dead.
I was taught the stories of the bible. I wasn't taught Jesus beyond that he was a guy who lived, died, rose again and would save the world.
I don't recall hearing that I personally needed saving, until I became a teenager.
By the time I did, it was completely different from what I thought it would be.
I actually experienced God, and Jesus in my life.
Wouldn't that be a personal interpretation as well? [several denominations would not agree with you]
Is it?
Does it counter the interpretations of Jesus followers for the past nearly 2 millennia?
Show me your interpretation.
Imagine being born a Jew and eight days later -- 'snip' ... now a part of the covenant family
Rather curious that Nicodemus was snipped, apparently the most educated man in Israel and yet he missed the importance of the new birth. An idea that David, Samuel, Moses, Joshua, Abraham, Isaiah, and all the other prophets and YHVH followers understood.
So profound was his missing its importance that Jesus asked them-- are you not the Teacher in Israel, and you don't know these things? If I explain to you earthly things and you don't understand, how will you understand heavenly things?
He then takes it really personal in his subsequent comments.
Joh 3:10-21 WEB 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and don’t understand these things? 11 Most certainly I tell you, we speak that which we know, and testify of that which we have seen, and you don’t receive our witness. 12 If I told you earthly things and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”
An idea comes to mind here.
Jesus obeyed the scriptures because he is YHVH's Messiah.
We who follow Jesus are to obey the scriptures because we are following Jesus.
We read in Matthew 7, that those who keep his teachings are like wise men who build their lives on a solid rock foundation.
Those who don't keep his teachings are like foolish people who build their lives on a sandy, shifting foundation.
James tells us in the first chapter of his letter that we're to be doers of the word so we can live in liberty.
Paul tells us in Galatians 5 that liberty is found in living a life of love, and in Romans 7-8, by walking in the Spirit and not after the law, something we further see in 2 Corinthians 3.
I agree... baptism for a Catholic is only the first step in the relationship
And I attended a church that has a lot of ex-Catholics-- my wife included, who never actually met Jesus.
She was educated in parochial school.
I have a catholic cousin who is a priest, he was educated in Rome/Vatican, at the law college, never actually met Jesus.
So obviously baptism isn't enough to save.
Little difference between that and circumcision. Paul had plenty to say about this.
That would bring us back to my original question ... ?
Imagine the following: A round table with pastors from the following churches.... Catholic, Methodist, Anglican, Lutheran, Non-denominational, Episcopalian, Baptist, etc.
Each pastor has his/her Bible in front of them.... all claim to be led by the Holy Spirit -- all disagree on multiple theological thoughts. We know the Holy Spirit does not teach error though. ?
Indeed....
The question then becomes a question of what does Proverbs say about such things?
There is wisdom in the multitude of counselors.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he shall direct your path.
Commit your thoughts to the Lird, and your works will be established.
In psalm 34, delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Commit yourself to him and he will bring it to pass.
The question I see this being is-- is YHVH capable of ensuring that you actually get it? Or, has he, as stated by Time magazine in the 60's, died, and no longer exists?
If YHVH is not capable of ensuring that we understand what he's saying to us, then he's not much of a god.
And as such, I'm thinking can be disregarded as incapable of handling the people he purportedly created.
The bible makes some serious claims. One of those is that YHVH is quite capable of handling us, and our problems in our lives.
He in fact invites us to bring our troubles to him and talk them through with him. Isaiah 1:18, 41:1, 21. It looks pretty clear that he is not afraid of us in the least, and actually wants to have a sit down talk with us about our lives.
He invites us to call on him in our day of trouble and he will deliver us. Psalm 50:15
The gospel of Jesus is about restoring us to a right relationship with God.
Not God as men see him, but as he's expressed in and through the life of Jesus.
Only through Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit is this possible.
And as you can readily read for yourself, God is inviting you to come and see for yourself.
It's written in Acts 17:11, the people of Berea were more noble than the people in thessalonica in that they searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was true or not.
Become a Berean. Learn for yourself whether the catholic church is the only way, of if in fact Jesus is the only way.
My ancestors left the catholic church, as did my wife.
We found a community of people who are learning to follow Jesus and not an institution.
I do appreciate the kind discourse!!!
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