Grace cannot be demanded

[preacher4truth]

So what Jesus accomplished on the cross and in His resurrection was for every single human being?

 

[preacher4truth]

So where is the refutation of "limited atonement"?

This is how to make a distinction between true teachers, and false:

The true make open public statements of the truth; 2 Cor. 4:1-2. The false hide behind their underhanded ways; same text. This is why this guy won't answer.

 

[Theo1689]

to Whom specifically was the promise of the Savior and His redemptive work made?

So you don't know?
Questions aren't valid arguments.
If you have an argument, please present it, instead of wasting everyone's time playing these stupid games.

if you don't have any real opinions to share on that ? then...

You clearly have some idea of something.
Why are you so afraid to share it?
Why do you instead play these stupid games?

Mankind are Adam and Eve's children, no?

What does that have to do with limited atonement?
Why do you continue to play these stupid games?
Is it that you don't KNOW how to present a valid argument? Is that it?

where does it say He is coming for and to die on behalf of Believers only?

Logical fallacy: shifting the burden of proof.

He came to save HIS PEOPLE.
He lay down His life for HIS SHEEP.
He came to present Himself for THE CHURCH.

So I guess you're admitting something we all already knew, that Gen. 3 does NOT prove "unlimited atonement".

some say some Calvinists project things that are not specifically stated in Scripture

Yes, we recevie that ad hominem all the time.
When in truth it is YOUR side who is doing it.

Now, we can continue to throw accusations at each other, OR
you can try to present a valid argument. Why are you so unwilling to do so?

 

[American Gothic]

the covenant was made with Adam, and the promises were made to he and his children
IMO

do you have a different opinion?

as I pointed out -
Isaiah said He was coming and would work for Israel, not "the Church"
there is no covenant made with The Church
should I use your logical projection there? (no, that would be silly)

 

[preacher4truth]

the covenant was made with Adam, and the promises were made to he and his children
IMO

do you have a different opinion?

Look, new questions, just in the Nick of time.

So what Jesus accomplished on the cross and in His resurrection was for every single human being?

 

[American Gothic]

So what Jesus accomplished on the cross and in His resurrection was for every single human being?

to Whom specifically was the promises of the Savior and His redemptive work made? Gen 3

 

[Theo1689]

the covenant was made with Adam, and the promises were made to he and his children
IMO

do you have a different opinion?

You still haven't demonstrated how this allegedly teaches universal atonement.

The elect are "his children", so there is no problem.

Isaiah said He was coming and would work for Israel, not "the Church"
there is no covenant made with The Church

... only if you arbitrarily SEPARATE the two groups.

should I use your logical projection there? (no, that would be silly)

Personal attack duly noted.
You have no valid argument, only insults.
That's sad.

 

[Theo1689]

Look, new questions, just in the Nick of time.

So what Jesus accomplished on the cross and in His resurrection was for every single human being?

It's amazing to me how they will never answer our questions, but they hypcritically expect us to answer THEIR questions.

 

[preacher4truth]

to Whom specifically was the promises of the Savior and His redemptive work made? Gen 3

So what Jesus accomplished on the cross and in His resurrection was for every single human being?

 

[Theo1689]

to Whom specifically was the promises of the Savior and His redemptive work made? Gen 3

Questions are not valid arguments.
Since you refuse to provide a valid argument in opposition to limited atonement, there is no reason for us to reject God's Biblical theology.

 

[preacher4truth]

It's amazing to me how they will never answer our questions, but they hypcritically expect us to answer THEIR questions.

Yep. I'm not answering the questions of a hider.

 

[American Gothic]

so the Savior and His redemptive work were indeed promised to ALL Mankind (?)

if you don't agree, you don't agree

 

[Theo1689]

so the Savior and His redemptive work were indeed promised to ALL Mankind (?)

Your question (which is not a valid argument) includes an unsubstantiated premise.

Please prove your premise.

 

[American Gothic]

"some say some Calvinists say"
is not a personal attack

do you guys ascribe to Replacement Theology?
the promises made to Israel are now given to The Church? The Church is Israel? etc.

God keeps His promises with those they are specifically made to, no?

 

[preacher4truth]

"some say some Calvinists say"
is not a personal attack

do you guys ascribe to Replacement Theology?
the promises made to Israel are now given to The Church?

God keeps His promises with those they are specifically made to, no?

So what Jesus accomplished on the cross and in His resurrection was for every single human being?

 

[Theo1689]

"some say some Calvinists say"
is not a personal attack

do you guys ascribe to Replacement Theology?
the promises made to Israel are now given to The Church? The Church is Israel? etc.

God keeps His promises with those they are specifically made to, no?

More evasion.
Please answer P4T's question, WITHOUT asking a question.

 

[American Gothic]

God keeps His promises with those they are specifically made to, no?

yes, of course
it is absolutely wrong for the Church to say they have overtaken Israel and her covenantal promises in God's plans
or that they actually are Israel now (as if!)

in Gen 3
there were promises made and of course God had to/has to keep with everyone He made them to...
(it was an unconditional covenant...there is no condition of it's predicated on election/Belief there)

do you guys think there are only, like...TWO covenants in the Bible or something strange like that?

 

[armylngst]

to Whom specifically was the promise of the Savior and His redemptive work made?
if you don't have any real opinions to share on that ? then...

Mankind are Adam and Eve's children, no?
where does it say He is coming for and to die on behalf of Believers only?

some say some Calvinists logically project things that are not specifically stated in Scripture
because those things fit their Theology

He did die on behalf of mankind. However, it is only effective for those who look upon the cross, who look upon Christ for salvation. Like the Israelites who didn't die because they looked upon the snake on a stake. Any of the Israelites who did not... died. There are a lot of incidents, and experiences in the Old Testament, that are prophetic in nature. This was one of those times, and even the New Testament makes note of it.

It is unlimited in scope, but limited in application. Christ's death is sufficient for all, but it is only effective for those who look to Him for salvation. Calvinist just say that those for whom it is limited to were written down in a book a long time ago, and that it is immutable. God chose those whom HE is willing to spend eternity with, before the foundation of the earth.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Sooooo....God owes everyone a chance, correct?

Nope God doesn't "OWE" anybody anything. Romans 9 is pretty clear on that.

 

[armylngst]

Nope God doesn't "OWE" anybody anything. Romans 9 is pretty clear on that.

Welcome to the calvinist camp, except I don't see any calvinist banners. Hmm. Could it be because this should be a basic doctrine not owned by anybody? (I am pushing that one needs to stop labeling beliefs they don't like Calvinism. Either it is true, or it is not, regardless of the designer clothes it wears, or lack thereof.
This is what one should know from studying God. (Not Calvin.) Calvin happened to believe it and teach it. So did Paul. So did a lot of other people. So did Jesus. It all goes back to... God. We should not be "I am of Paul", or "I am of Apollos". We can learn from them (discipleship), but we were not born of them. We were born of Christ.