Is faith a fruit of the Spirit?

Carbon

Carbon

Super Member
fltom said:
Lazarus is never used as an example of soteriology
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Not according to you. Anything that challenges your humanistic beliefs is simply unacceptable. Huh? 🙂
fltom said:
Scripture does show the dead can hear and believe
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Okay, let’s have a look.
fltom said:
John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
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Do you realize we’re all dead Tom? And the elect will hear Christs voice, the effectual inward call.

John 10,
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
fltom said:
John 20:31 (KJV 1900)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
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I’ll let you translate this one Tom.
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
Carbon said:
We are spiritually dead. Therefore, before we can believe we need to be born of the spirit.
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Not according to scripture

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
 
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Carbon

Carbon

Super Member
fltom said:
Not according to scripture

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
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I already explained this for you. Take it or leave it. 🙂 Post# 22
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Carbon said:
Yes I know, according to you the dead can do all sorts of things. Lazarus was walking around in the tomb as a zombie until Jesus recognized his effort of faith before calling him out.
👍
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People know that Grace prevenes Faith. Of course we can Believe AFTER Grace. The LIVING can do all sorts of things...
 
Carbon

Carbon

Super Member
ReverendRV said:
People know that Grace prevenes Faith. Of course we can Believe AFTER Grace. The LIV8NG can do all sorts if things...
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Depends how one understands grace. Effectual grace is biblical grace. Prevenient grace is humanistic grace which tries to prove spiritually dead people can exorcize a faith to save themselves.
Prevenient grace results in easybelievism which free willers cling to.

Even if it were possible (prevenient grace), scripture takes away their free will with passages throughout scripture, so it amounts to nothing.

John 6:44,
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 3,
And many more.

So if prevenient grace has any chance of being true. It has no support in scripture.
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
Johnnybgood said:
Yes more calvie talk conflating. I was reading an old thread where @civic was using that same lame argument against you . It’s made up calvie talk conflating.

His arguments were weak like the rest of the calvies in this thread .

Regeneration as new life revisited

regeneration as new life Not that Calvinist should deny it for they claim men are dead and therefore he cannot believe And that he first must be made alive by regeneration so he might believe So It’s rather odd that any should therefore deny that regeneration is new life But here are the...
forums.carm.org

PS- I pm him about that thread since he changed his views . I would like to hear what he has to say now about his weak arguments then as a Calvinist 😂
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He has affirmed it
 
Leatherneck0311

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
eternomade said:
No but you often leave out the very next verse.

Can you please answer the OP?
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Jhn 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;but that the world through him might be saved.

Unchecked Copy Box
Jhn 3:18 - He that believeth on him-is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already,because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

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Jhn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deed were evil. Here are the next 3 verses notice 3:17 Jesus never came to condemn the world but that the world through Him MIGHT be saved. 3:18 He that BELIEVES on Him is not condemned. 3:19 the condemnation is not that men cannot come to Him it is that they WILL not come to Him because they loved darkness.
 
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T

TheTruth

Active member
eternomade said:
I believe it is a fruit of the Spirit:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"
Galatians 5:22 KJV

Is belief a work of man or God?

I believe it is a work of God:

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
John 6:28‭-‬29 KJV

Is belief by man's will or God's will?

I believe it is by God's will:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:37‭-‬40 KJV
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All belief/faith originates in and with God, because without belief/faith His Kingdom of truth is unknowable.
 
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TheTruth

Active member
ReverendRV said:
I say every Christian will agree with your Verse, and say that yes; faith in this Context is a Fruit of God. But I think some will say Saving Faith isn't a Fruit of the Spirit; because this Faith precedes our being placed in the True Vine...

I'd counter that by saying 'Look at the other Fruits listed in the Verse'. "Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, and Goodness". If Saving Faith is not a Spiritual Gift, then before our Belief in the Truth; none of these are Spiritual Gifts. Our love before we Believe is not a Saving Love. Our goodness before our Belief in the Truth is not a Saving Goodness. It is actually a 'Filthy-Rag' goodness; right? Our faith before Belief in the Truth is likewise Filthy-Rag faith...

So perhaps they are right; our faith before our Belief in the Truth is NOT a Spiritual Gift...
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Can we even know what "Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, and Goodness" is without first believing God's truth?
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
TheTruth said:
Can we even know what "Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, and Goodness" is without first believing God's truth?
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Without Grace, we can only know a "Filthy-Rag" version of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness; and faith...

Faith without Works is Dead. faith without Grace is a Filthy Rag...
 
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TheTruth

Active member
ReverendRV said:
Amen...

Why would Faith be the Fruit of the Spirit once, but not twice? What is the difference between Faith which is the Fruit of God, and faith which is not the Fruit if God?
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If both salvation and fruit of the Spirit require belief/faith and both originate in God, then God must do the same thing to save man and produce Fruits of the Spirit in man?
 
T

TheTruth

Active member
ReverendRV said:
Without Grace, we can only know a "Filthy-Rag" version of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness; and faith...

Faith without Works is Dead. faith without Grace is a Filthy Rag...
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Agreed. There is no "Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness" or faith without believing God.

Another question; is there any "Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness" or faith without a believing God?
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
TheTruth said:
If both salvation and fruit of the Spirit require belief/faith and both originate in God, then God must do the same thing to save man and produce Fruits of the Spirit in man?
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Amen. Grace is always the First-Factor of Salvation; or else our Prevenient Faith is always a Filthy-Rag...
 
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