Theo1689
Well-known member
So Joseph was still alive in the 1950's?!
Romans4
- Thread starter dberrie2020
- Start date
So Joseph was still alive in the 1950's?!
Janice Bower
Well-known member
He was speaking to humans (not indwelt by the Spirit and without faith) who only look at others and then make a judgment.
Matthew 5
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
You see and believe that a person is justified by works, but only those people who obey Mormonism are justified in a Mormon's eyes.
Christendom. That portion of the world in which so-called Christinity prevails---as distinguished from heathen or Mohammedan lands---is called Christendom. The term also applies to the whole body of supposed Christian believers; as now constituted this body is properly termed apostate Christendom.
Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915-1985)
dberrie2020
Super Member
When we obey the commandments--are we obeying God in Christ Jesus?
Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Unfortunately you, dberrie, belong to a cult that denies truth and your posts are straw men.
dberrie2020
Super Member
What is there about the testimony of God which does not include Abraham's deeds?
Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes,
When Paul uses the term "works" here(Romans4:2)--he is referring to the Mosaic Law, not the gospel--which Abraham lived under. Abraham couldn't be justified by works--because he didn't live under the law of works(Mosaic Law).
If one were to read carefully--the message Paul was delivering was--Abraham lived under the gospel--not the Mosaic Law(works). IOW--the traditional Jews were running to "father Abraham" to claim their elite status with God--Paul was pointing out that Abraham lived under the gospel of Jesus Christ--not the Mosaic Law(works)--the very gospel Paul was bringing to them, and they were rejecting in favor of the Mosaic Law.
Could you explain for us how Paul could explain all men would be judged according to their deeds--and that for eternal life--just two chapters earlier--and then claim those deeds has nothing to do with being justified?
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
That dog just ain't gonna hunt.
dberrie2020
Super Member
dberrie2020
Super Member
That's the finest straw man construction I've seen since the Wizard of Oz.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Your imperfect works and strawmen do not and never will nullify Christ's perfect sacrifice. Dare you call Christ's sacrifice imperfect ot incomplete? Any good that we do is because Christ made a sinner a new creature.
Hebrews 9:13-14
"For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God."
Hebrews 9:13-14
"For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God."
He is thoroughly indoctrinated by the Mormon church and blinded by the god of this world. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) If the truth is what he was looking for then he would have already found it in the multiple posts that we previously shared with him, but since accommodating his biased church doctrine is the only thing that he is interested in, he won't accept the truth no matter how many times that we explain it to him. Truly sad..
dberrie2020
Super Member
I believe Christ's Atonement here was a free gift for all men.
Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
None excepted. Don't you believe one has to have faith in it to be effective?
Janice--it was a complete, free gift to all men. Him alone. No faith or works necessary.
Can you say the same? If not--then your view might not be as complete as mine, IMO.
If that is true--then all men would be made a new creature in Christ. The Atonement absolved all men of the condemnation of the Fall--and opened the door of eternal life for all men, as an opportunity---but one must walk in the light--for His Blood to be applied to their personal sins:
Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
The Blood of Christ was applied to all men--as a free gift--as to releasing all men from the condemnation of the Fall--as it shows in Romans5:18 above--and opening the doors of eternal life to all men--as an opportunity. The Blood is applied to all those who walk in the light--as to our personal sins--upon this condition:
1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Personally--I think you are confusing those two things.
dberrie2020
Super Member
Careful, Dan--some are sensitive to that verse. Showing other gods exist might not be the approach you want to travel.
Such as this church doctrine?
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
You do know who the god of this world in 2 Corinthians 4:4 is don't you?
I already thoroughly explained Romans 2:5-11 to you in post #37 (and elsewhere) but unfortunately, the truth just continues to go right over your head and there is a reason for that.
dberrie2020
Super Member
If it's satan--then another question could be posed here:
If satan can be a god--then why not the sons of God?
These truths?
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.
Magdalena
Well-known member
Is Satan actually a god? No. There is only one God. Past, present, and future.
Bonnie
Super Member
Of course Satan isn't a god. There is only one true God. But whatever rules a person and is more important to him than God Himself, that person has made that thing his "god." But they are worthless idols.
the verse "the god of this world" doesn't even mention Satan. That is someone's interpretation of it. It may be accurate--but it could also mean one's wordly appetites:
Kinda describes Smith--doesn't it? But is an appetite a real god? No one would say it is a true god. Besides, I thought that Satan was denied a physical body because of his rebellion and therefore, could not become mortal, and therefore, could never progress to "godhood."
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brotherofJared
Well-known member
We have never argued that our imperfect works would nullify Christ's perfect sacrifice. That is the straw man that you have built.
The sinner is a new creature only if the sinner actually changes. You cannot continue in your wicked ways and claim that you are a new creature simply because you believe in Jesus Christ. That seems oxymoronic and yet you still push the agenda. We believe that walking in the newness of life actually means keeping commandments. And if you aren't keeping the commandments then you aren't walking in the newness of life. It goes much farther than that. The commandments aren't really that hard to keep. But the newness of life actually includes charity, hope, and faith. If we have those three things then we can be assured of salvation. If you don't then it will be a struggle.
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brotherofJared
Well-known member
It does appear that our critics tend to gloss over the "through faith" part of Eph 2:8
Magdalena
Well-known member
Who are you accusing of continuing in their wicked ways? What commandments do you feel we’re not keeping?
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Every sinner willl be punished according to his deeds. Every Christian is given the GIFT of eternal life and is indwelt by the Sprit.
Who makes believers out of sinners? (Hint: God giveth the increase. )
John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
How many mistakes and failures does God have?
1 Corinthians 1:4-9
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; 5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
God is faithful!