Titus 3:5 exposes the anomalous dilemma of Calvinism.

His clay said:
Did you notice that the verse you quoted, totally negated human action in its description? (this does not mean that humans don't act or do in the salvation process as other verses indicate, but that the verse quoted explicitly negates human action in its description) Let's look at the parts of the verse.

-"not by works of righteousness which we have done" Note how human actions of a righteous quality are negated
-"but according to His mercy He saved us" Note the use of the word "but" as a sign of contrast. In contrast, to the earlier negation of human righteous action, God acted in His mercy to save us.
-"through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" Note the use of the word "though" as it indicates the means of the saving of the previous portion. The washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit are both God's acts.

So, did you notice that the verse you quoted, totally negated human action within the confines of its description?
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Correct. Regeneration is wholly accomplished by God.
That's already accounted for in my OP when I wrote the following salvation sequence in my OP:

Hint: This is the Biblical Way of salvation:
  1. We Believe
  2. Gods saves us through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5)
Step 2 is wholly of God. Our part is step 1 which is to believe in Christ and occurs before we receive the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:5,14) and Whose effects are mentioned in Titus 3:5.
 
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Synergy said:
You can't isolate regeneration from everything else that's going on in one's salvation. You need to tie in salvific belief and God's Grace to get a better picture of salvation.

Let's start by harmonizing Eph 2:8 (which you selected) with Titus 3:5 (the OP topic).
Harmonization is possible when you consider the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit is part of God's Grace and therefore both verses are talking about exactly the same moment we are saved. It is one salvation but two steps. First step is our belief in Christ (Rom 10:8-10). Second step is our regeneration by receiving the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:5). Both steps happen in that sequence and at the same time so there is one and only one salvation.
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I don't. I simply place regeneration as the second step.

Stopped reading after that line. No need to fo further
 
Synergy said:
Correct. Regeneration is wholly accomplished by God.
That's already accounted for in my OP when I wrote the following salvation sequence in my OP:

Hint: This is the Biblical Way of salvation:
  1. We Believe
  2. Gods saves us through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5)
Step 2 is wholly of God. Our part is step 1 which is to believe in Christ and occurs before we receive the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:5,14) and Whose effects are mentioned in Titus 3:5.
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HINT :It does not say anything about believe in Titus 3:5.
 
Synergy said:
You don't what? Complete your sentences?

I do too. We're making progress.

Just when we're making progress you stopped reading. What a shame.
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For some posts in here, that's all you need. Yours being a good example.

Election would be first.

I stopped reading because it's the same proof texting nonsense your side is famous for. And, as is typical, your whole post is based upon a faulty unproven premise. Understand?
 
Synergy said:
That's why I mentioned Gal 3:5,14 to connect the two. If you don't read what I write, don't even bother responding.
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You did not connect the two. LOL Exegetically. Because you post them they are connected?

Show me belief in Titus 3:5. I will wait. A long time I'm guessing
 
Who made up this absurd rule that when heresy is appropriately applied (i.e. to the folks who believed they were elected and subsequently saved because of what they did) to false teachings that it is "mudslinging?" I mean clearly 2 Timothy 1:17; Ephesians 2:4 &c completely refute that error of elected/saved because I ____________________.

Try accepting the fact that your teachings are in error, and correct yourselves, as that is what Scripture prescribes; 2 Timothy 3:16ff "anyone?"

Yes, I suppose Paul, in defending the Gospel in Galatians against those who added what they did to the equation, making it a false gospel, was only "mudslinging." Or, at least that's exactly what some here would have said to him. He would as much rebuke you "conditionalists" that believe something you have done saved you. In fact, he already has.

Wake up.
 
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Reformedguy said:
You did not connect the two. LOL Exegetically. Because you post them they are connected?

Show me belief in Titus 3:5. I will wait. A long time I'm guessing
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As with all Arminians, they cannot stay, and will not stay in a text to exegete it. They run to other texts to eisegete it into the former, and/or to pit one text against another.

Very poor hermeneutic.

Some need to read "The Potters Freedom." In it you will find the Arminian argument does this, and every single time they take passages out of context to support their erroneous teachings.
 
preacher4truth said:
As with all Arminians, they cannot stay, and will not stay in a text to exegete it. They run to other texts to eisegete it into the former, and/or to pit one text against another.

Very poor hermeneutic.

Some need to read "The Potters Freedom." In it you will find the Arminian argument does this, and every single time they take passages out of context to support their erroneous teachings.
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So you want to stay within Titus and reject all other epistles without bothering to explain why they are all "out of context"? Fine. Let's do that.

Just 2 verses down (Titus 3:7), Paul mentions that we were justified by His grace and heirs to eternal life. That is very much a mirror image of Eph 2:8. There you have your connection between justification (salvific belief) and Titus 3:5.

And before you start jumping up and down that the word "belief" is not in Titus 3:7, Acts 13:39 shows the direct connection between belief and justification. Or is that another non-Titus verse that you want to apply your "not in context" card hoax to?
 
Synergy said:
So you want to stay within Titus and reject all other epistles without bothering to explain why they are all "out of context"? Fine. Let's do that.

Just 2 verses down (Titus 3:7), Paul mentions that we were justified by His grace and heirs to eternal life. That is very much a mirror image of Eph 2:8. There you have your connection between justification (salvific belief) and Titus 3:5.

And before you start jumping up and down that the word "belief" is not in Titus 3:7, Acts 13:39 shows the direct connection between belief and justification. Or is that another non-Titus verse that you want to apply your "not in context" card hoax to?
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We're not talking about justification. The topic is the ordus solutus. Which comes first, faith or regeneration. Remember?

Interesting you bring up context. Another Provisionist, when convenient of course, wants to down ay the importance of context.
 
Synergy said:
So you want to stay within Titus
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Yes!
Synergy said:
and reject all other epistles
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That's false and ad hominem, correct? Correct? I do not reject other epistles, stop with the false charges, OK?
Synergy said:
without bothering to explain why they are all "out of context"? Fine. Let's do that.
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What I am saying is stay in the context of the passage at hand.
Synergy said:
Just 2 verses down (Titus 3:7), Paul mentions that we were justified by His grace and heirs to eternal life.
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Justified by what? By His grace. What does that mean? Exegete it from here, not elsewhere. From here.
Synergy said:
That is very much a mirror image of Eph 2:8.
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Ooops. You left Titus already. Stay in Titus.
Synergy said:
There you have your connection between justification (salvific belief) and Titus 3:5.
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Stay in Titus.
Synergy said:
And before you start jumping up and down
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There you go again with silly assumptions. Chill.
Synergy said:
that the word "belief" is not in Titus 3:7, Acts 13:39 shows the direct connection between belief and justification. Or is that another non-Titus verse that you want to apply your "not in context" card hoax to?
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You two are arguing about belief not being in the text. That's between you two.

My point is you cannot stay in a text and exegete it from there. It is at times difficult, and few do it.

Stay in Titus, all you're doing is showing what I stated is true. In fact you've proven it. Can you admit to this so we can move forward please?

Exegete Titus by Titus.

"Justified by His grace." Hmmm...very, very intriguing text. Don't you agree?
 
preacher4truth said:
Yes!
That's false and ad hominem, correct? Correct? I do not reject other epistles, stop with the false charges, OK?
What I am saying is stay in the context of the passage at hand.
Justified by what? By His grace. What does that mean? Exegete it from here, not elsewhere. From here.
Ooops. You left Titus already. Stay in Titus.
Stay in Titus.
There you go again with silly assumptions. Chill.
You two are arguing about belief not being in the text. That's between you two.
My point is you cannot stay in a text and exegete it from there. It is at times difficult, and few do it.
Stay in Titus, all you're doing is showing what I stated is true. In fact you've proven it. Can you admit to this so we can move forward please?
Exegete Titus by Titus.
"Justified by His grace." Hmmm...very, very intriguing text. Don't you agree?
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Explain to everyone what you think is encapsulated by the words God's "grace" in Titus 3:7.
I'm ok with you using the entire Bible to do so.
 
Synergy said:
Explain to everyone
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If I did that I wouldn't be obeying Matthew 7:6 in light of your crowd.
Synergy said:
what you think is encapsulated by the words God's "grace" in Titus 3:7.
I'm ok with you using the entire Bible to do so.
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OK, you refuse to stay in Titus and exegete it.

Is it because you cannot, or will not? If you can, why not? You're the one arguing its meaning outside of the context of the passage.

As I stated, it is a difficult text.
 
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