Hyper Calvinism defined

Leatherneck0311 said:
If God elected you your faith would not even be relevant. God commanded men to believe and repent, and if they do not Jesus said it is because they love darkness more than light. It was their choice ,a bad choice for sure ,but still their choice.
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Why friend?

The Bible says Faith is Relevant...
 
ReverendRV said:
Why friend?

The Bible says Faith is Relevant...
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If God elected you why would you need your OWN belief in Him ? If God elected you why would you feel the need to obey Him the deal( (salvation) is done without any input from you. God commanded men to believe and repent if your elected with no belief or repentance from you would that undue God electing you? Scripture says God increases the faith of those that believe.
 
eternomade said:
Was Calvin a hyper Calvinist?

"We may also learn from this passage, -- that when the ungodly accumulate wealth, they are in a manner fattened. When oxen plough, and sheep are fed that they may bear wool and bring forth young, they are not fed that they may grow fat, and a moderate quantity of food will suffice them; but when any one intends to prepare sheep or oxen for the slaughter, he fattens them. So then the feeding of them is nothing else than the fattening of them; and the fattening of them is a preparation for their slaughter. I have therefore said that a very useful doctrine is included in this form of speaking; for when we see that plenty of wealth and power abound with the ungodly and the despisers of God, we see that they are in a manner thus fined with good things, that they may grow fat: -- it is fattening or cramming. Let us then not bear it in that they are thus covered with their own fatness, for they are prepared for the day of slaughter."

Calvin's commentary on Jeremiah 12
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Hyper to the core
 
Howie said:
If God didn't elect, no one would be saved

Actually, He said a lot more than that about why men won't believe.
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God draws to Jesus and you either accept the truth or you reject the truth. I only believe election based on the foreknowledge of God like scripture says:
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1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
God draws to Jesus and you either accept the truth or you reject the truth.
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Yep.

Leatherneck0311 said:
I only believe election based on the foreknowledge of God like scripture says:
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1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,through sanctification of the Spirit, untoobedience and sprinkling of the bloodof Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, andpeace, be multiplied.
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What is "foreknowledge?"
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
If God elected you why would you need your OWN belief in Him ? If God elected you why would you feel the need to obey Him the deal( (salvation) is done without any input from you. God commanded men to believe and repent if your elected with no belief or repentance from you would that undue God electing you? Scripture says God increases the faith of those that believe.
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I would need my Faith, in order to be Justified. Unconditional Election cannot Justify; if a Calvinist believes UE Justifies, they are Hyper...

I've decided to focus a lot on the 5-Solas. Calvinists believe they are Justified through Faith Alone; just as you believe...

What do you think about Calvinists holding to Sola Fide?
 
ReverendRV said:
I would need my Faith, in order to be Justified. Unconditional Election cannot Justify; if a Calvinist believes UE Justifies, they are Hyper...

I've decided to focus a lot on the 5-Solas. Calvinists believe they are Justified through Faith Alone; just as you believe...

What do you think about Calvinists holding to Sola Fide?
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If Calvinist believe God gave them their faith I don’t see that in scripture. I see no where in scripture that God believes for us.
 
Joe said:
Brother, you can read so you know the passages from the writings of the Apostle Paul and John both clearly state that God's grace has been given to all people.
Howie said:
Sure, He gives to all the grace of rain and to all the grace of fruitful seasons as a witness (acts 14:17), but that is not the grace that saves. It can't be, because by definition, the grace that saves, saves, but not all are saved.

Where does scripture say He gives to everyone the grace that saves ?
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So are you saying when God purposely and explicitly gave His Son for the sins of the whole world, tasting death/dying for everyone, that is not God's saving grace for salvation? The Lord and His Apostles say differently, not me. You seem to pass it off as common grace such as rain. Perhaps I am taking your comment wrong.

Here are the translations of Robert Young, the YLT translation, and Jay P Green, the LITV translation. Both are known for accuracy to the original text and meaning.

"For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men" (YLT)
"For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men" (LITV)

Whether or not you accept it does not change the fact that God's saving grace has been manifested/appeared to all men. The translation of the ESV, KJV, GNB, NKJV, NIV, NET, NASB, and etc all say the same thing, that God;s grace for salvation has appeared/manifested to all men.

There is zero doubt to the meaning of the text. How we handle it is the question.

God's saving grace has appeared/manifested to all men. I believe the testimony of God on this one. Do you?

You seem to think there is another grace besides God's giving of His Son. Perhaps you can provide scriptural evidence for such.

Joe said:
And I agree all men are not saved, for not all men who hear believe the Good News.

Howie said:
Why is that?
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I explained that in the same paragraph: "As Jesus told Nicodemus, some people love the darkness/sin and refuse to come into the light/repent and believe and be reconciled to God."

I certainly cannot say it any better than the Lord did, "Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God." (Joh 3:19-21)

The reason why men don't believe is because they love sin. It doesn't get any easier than that. The fault of their damnation is not upon God for not showing them saving grace for we know that He has. The fault of anyone's damnation is their love for sin instead of doing what God wants.


Joe said:
But it is not that God did not, and does not show them grace to believe,

Howie said:
Again, by definition, "Grace to believe," results in belief. God did not give grace to believe to all men, else all men would believe.
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Perhaps you could share the passages of the bible that refer to the special "Grace to believe" that is with held from men else they would believe.

FYI - Many of the Jewish people were hardened because they were stiff necked, unholy, and resisted the Holy Spirit. They had the true revelation of God and refused to love and worship God. There is no special grace, only one grace and that is God's When one resists God and refuses to leave the love of sin for Him, rest assured He will leave that one to his demise.

Joe said:
The whole world is given salvation because God said so, not me.
Howie said:
That's universalism. God does not give salvation to everyone. He offers it, but He doesn't give it to everyone?
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Yes, I agree. I was hurried and missed it in my proof reading.

Salvation from God is genuinely offered to everyone with the intent that they believe and be saved.

God bless
 
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Leatherneck0311 said:
If they have faith and not some un-scriptural redefining of faith absolutely. God gave me this probably 40 years ago. FAITH= Forsaking-All-I-Trust-Him.
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Yeah, that's why a good study on Sola Fide would be great. We love Faith Alone just as much as a Provisionist does; you just can't tell it at places like this...

Protestant Reformers suffered for this...
 
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